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  1. #261
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    Looking through his speeches he emotes in a major way. Clearly he was an extraverted feeling user.
    no no - that's not emotion - it's a scare tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    It's probably the same documentary that I posted 3 pages ago.
    ok. well I watched it yesterday and it was pretty underwhelming. I hate when documentaries take 5 minutes of material and drag them out into a full hour. They focused way too much on the fact that Hitler was into being demoralized sexually. It did reinforce ISTJ in my own mind simply because of the fact that they kept mentioning how stone faced he was all the time and then how he was the complete opposite in times of desperation. ISTJ's in general have huge issues with expressing emotion, viewing it as a weakness (macho bullshit to cover up insecurity). Also the part about how he kept becoming more neurotic as his downfall continued - that is totally ISTJ. When they can't control something they make everything into a federal case, chaos is their bane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    I came to the same conclusion reading about him. He procrastinated a lot, was often late to meetings, and frequently relinquished responsibilities to others. He was an "idea man," a wayward idealist.
    The way I view it he was not so much an "idea" man but a strongarmed logistical tyrant. If you view the youtube that was posted (part II) by Peguy they clearly mention that he did not bother to read reports - he just gave orders based on his whims. Also, he was not so much a "leader" as a person who had so much charisma that people were willing to do things for him just to please him. This is also very ISTJ, by the way. I have known one or two that are like this - they are pretty lazy themselves because they know that other people are gonna take care of shit for them. He didn't procrastinate - he just wasn't necessarily needed to be involved - everyone else revolved around him and kissed his ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    in my opinion, the most likely type is INFJ.
    no way. INFJ's are sympathetic and sensitive people, and understand other people's feelings. Hitler was none of these. He held all his emotions inside himself and then they burst out in full force when he couldn't handle it anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    nothing about hitler's bearing reads as NTJ to me, though all of his conceptualizations read extremely strong Ni. Fe follows logically: not only is he a charismatic public speaker, but much of the way his vision for germany was to be achieved was through social classification and reorganization, Fe's domain. but it's not his lead: his speeches were tightly pre-scripted, and he cares about the vision first, even to the detriment of the people. i also swing towards introvert because he did not seem to be very externally expressive, he chose very isolated safehouses, and when his campaigns were going poorly, he retreated to solitude, instead of engaging the people.
    that's because he's not an N.. lol. STJ's can be extremely charismatic speakers when they know what they are talking about. Normally they would keep quiet but when you touch upon a subject that is something they are experts in they will demonstrate their knowledge in a very visceral way. Once again he did not have a "vision" - if you listen to the documentary posted above (part II) they mention that his dictatorship was very disorganized and chaotic because he took a "things will work themselves out" type of a view towards his leadership. He was the fountainhead - the rest of the drones "made it so".

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i think you're kinda doing just that, though. if we zoom out and look at hitler, what we see is nazi germany. both through political strategizing and personal enthusiasm, hitler became his ideal. i don't really know how you can get any more NF than that.
    hitler was NOT a feeler. feelers are compassionate. hitler had ZERO compassion.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    uniforms, social hierarchy, and commanding people are all easily explained by impersonally(Ni)- driven Fe. he was a strong prioritizer, but his prioritization was extremely socially-oriented, not so much Te logistics. i also don't see much Si in his goals - the "new order" was literally a new amalgamation of ideas, not based on previous experience or a return to traditionalism. it really only utilized old symbology (the roman salute, the swastika, etc, but those are abstract concepts - not the work of Si.) through a Si-Te mindset, i can hardly see the necessity of so many banners with a symbol that only possibly relates to german antiquity - it was considered a symbol of the aryan race, an N abstraction, more so than an S reality. additionally, the idea of german expansion deviated greatly from traditional ideas of maintaining a smaller state. the third reich was not working towards reestablishment, but attaining a new goal.
    once again, you are assuming that he was the organizer of everything. he was not. many of the fine details of the nazis were carried out by others, as has been established by his laissez-faire attitude towards understanding minutia. hitler was not doing anything the german people did not want. he knew that germany was in a desperate situation and took advantage of that. everyone worked together to make nazi germany what it was. hitler could only take the organization so far - ultimately it was up to the general public to believe in the power of working together to create a new order.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    if we're considering type purely through functions, though, J doesn't actually have to do anything with any of those traits. (and an NJ i know procrastinates as much as i do, so i wouldn't go off that.) there are correlations, sure, but being late doesn't make you not a J. i find it hard to abandon the idea that he has Ni somewhere in his top 2 functions. Ne... it's powerful, but it's not focused. additionally, if he's an IxxJ, that makes him Perceiving dominant, despite J. an IxFJ is also more likely to be less externally organized than an IxTJ because Fe is more about social prioritizing.

    the only other type i could consider for him is INFP, but his relentless drive to structure doesn't seem very IxFP compatible. and does he strike us more as Harmonizer Clarifier or Foreseer Developer? i'm going with Foreseer Developer. plus, does this strike us as the idealism of someone who is highly attuned to subjective evaluation and individual difference.
    you're overthinking this. it's pretty simple actually. Hitler was not actually interested in the future. He was only interested in figuring out how to continue his charade, which focused on making sure that everything was "just so" in the current moment. he was brilliant at expressing the values that needed to be expressed at the appropriate moments.
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  2. #262
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    I read from somewhere that Hitler was ExF of some sort...
    I mean, that is somebody's guess too...
    A sosiopath/a psychopath would be a best guess, I think, of his type.
    I mean typing is for normal people, isn't it?

  3. #263
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    Hitler was an über PUA and Germany was his bitch.




  4. #264
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OxBbjOT0Gk"].[/YOUTUBE]
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENTJ Extraordinaire View Post
    hmmm...on second thoughts...i think we shouldn't just disregard F either...

    we associate Feelers with being EMOTIONAL.

    however in Hitlers case, it is actually what his MOTIVATIONS are, not how he expresses himself.

    so i say he is an I - due to his charismatic, yet not outgoing nature.
    S or N - not quite sure...CAN'T DECIDE!
    F - his actions were based on his FEELINGS. not on a RATIONALE!
    and DEF. a J to be so organised!

    IxFJ

    swinging more toward ISFJ

    "People value the ISFJ for their consideration and awareness, and their ability to bring out the best in others by their firm desire to believe the best." [ok so not the best...but he def. brought something out of the nazi's :P]

    "ISFJs have a very clear idea of the way things should be, which they strive to attain."

    "If they are negative feelings, they may build up inside the ISFJ until they turn into firm judgments against individuals which are difficult to unseed, once set. Many ISFJs learn to express themselves, and find outlets for their powerful emotions." [OUTLET MUCH! LETS KILL 6 MILLION PEOPLE ]

    NEED ME TO CONTINUE?
    The "S" are makers and followers "good soldats", N have ideas but don't put the button "on".
    Did ever Hitler kill people himself?
    I think he didn't, he always asked to the other people to do the dirty work!!! So I think he's an N

  6. #266
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    no no - that's not emotion - it's a scare tactic.



    ok. well I watched it yesterday and it was pretty underwhelming. I hate when documentaries take 5 minutes of material and drag them out into a full hour. They focused way too much on the fact that Hitler was into being demoralized sexually. It did reinforce ISTJ in my own mind simply because of the fact that they kept mentioning how stone faced he was all the time and then how he was the complete opposite in times of desperation. ISTJ's in general have huge issues with expressing emotion, viewing it as a weakness (macho bullshit to cover up insecurity). Also the part about how he kept becoming more neurotic as his downfall continued - that is totally ISTJ. When they can't control something they make everything into a federal case, chaos is their bane.



    The way I view it he was not so much an "idea" man but a strongarmed logistical tyrant. If you view the youtube that was posted (part II) by Peguy they clearly mention that he did not bother to read reports - he just gave orders based on his whims. Also, he was not so much a "leader" as a person who had so much charisma that people were willing to do things for him just to please him. This is also very ISTJ, by the way. I have known one or two that are like this - they are pretty lazy themselves because they know that other people are gonna take care of shit for them. He didn't procrastinate - he just wasn't necessarily needed to be involved - everyone else revolved around him and kissed his ass.



    no way. INFJ's are sympathetic and sensitive people, and understand other people's feelings. Hitler was none of these. He held all his emotions inside himself and then they burst out in full force when he couldn't handle it anymore.



    that's because he's not an N.. lol. STJ's can be extremely charismatic speakers when they know what they are talking about. Normally they would keep quiet but when you touch upon a subject that is something they are experts in they will demonstrate their knowledge in a very visceral way. Once again he did not have a "vision" - if you listen to the documentary posted above (part II) they mention that his dictatorship was very disorganized and chaotic because he took a "things will work themselves out" type of a view towards his leadership. He was the fountainhead - the rest of the drones "made it so".



    hitler was NOT a feeler. feelers are compassionate. hitler had ZERO compassion.



    once again, you are assuming that he was the organizer of everything. he was not. many of the fine details of the nazis were carried out by others, as has been established by his laissez-faire attitude towards understanding minutia. hitler was not doing anything the german people did not want. he knew that germany was in a desperate situation and took advantage of that. everyone worked together to make nazi germany what it was. hitler could only take the organization so far - ultimately it was up to the general public to believe in the power of working together to create a new order.



    you're overthinking this. it's pretty simple actually. Hitler was not actually interested in the future. He was only interested in figuring out how to continue his charade, which focused on making sure that everything was "just so" in the current moment. he was brilliant at expressing the values that needed to be expressed at the appropriate moments.
    What a bunch of nonsense.

    Who wouldn't become neurotic as they began to lose a war, especially one as huge as WWII? What was he supposed to do? Be as neurotic as he was when he was winning? Be less neurotic? Did you even read what you wrote?

    A desire to be "in control" isn't an ISTJ trait. It's a J trait. It seems the reason you want Hitler to be an ISTJ is because you hate Hitler and hate ISTJs, and the two make a pretty mentally comforting pair.

    A "strongarmed idea man" is the last description I would give Hitler. The guy was an artist, a vegetarian, a dog-lover, and was inspired by an opera. His attitude towards the German people was one of a "savior" or "Jesus-figure". You really need to read more about him; your knowledge of the man is quite dour.

    INFJs are sympathetic and caring people? All of them? Really? Even if they were, Hitler was certainly sympathetic; maybe not towards Jews or Communists, but certainly to the people around him and to the German people. To animals as well; he would turn his head away from movie scenes that had animal cruelty in them. Does that sound like someone with "no compassion"? Nonsense.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  7. #267
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Who wouldn't become neurotic as they began to lose a war, especially one as huge as WWII?
    One must be fucking crazy to start a war with almost the entire planet, don't you think?

    The downside of speculation is that everyone can do it, and they probably won't reach your conclusion.

    Who cares about Hitler...to me it's pretty obvious he was not a "thinker" in MBTI terms. His biggest "quality" wasn't strategy-logic-decision making, and this is a fact, he was a good public speaker, probably one of the most notorious in all history. Without that, he wouldn't have done anything.

    He was unpredictable, who would have thought anyone would be insane enough to start a war on 2 fronts, when it was pretty obvious that the US would declare war on them at some point in the future, like they did before.

    meh...why bother with Hitler...

  8. #268
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Fucking crazy =/= ISTJ.
    “Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G. K. Chesterton

  9. #269
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Hitler = definitely an ESTJ turned bad.....

    Now I'm thinking ENTJ.... he seemed a little.... ambitious for an estj. ENTJ's I've known go out there and get what they want, while ESTJ's I know are content to remain in a ruley situation, such as retail. ENTJ's seem to create their own destinies moreso. So much for definitely lol......He's probably ENTJ with 50/50 S. He did a lot of day-to-day training and activities with the people, not to mention his performances and speeches.

    As far as Hitler not being typeable because he's such a spun cookie, that sounds reasonable. I can only see what he does, and thinks in some instances. Insanity can introduce whole new elements to the picture that are not being taken into account. He was using reason and logic to draw some pretty insane conclusions.

    End result is ESTJ with heavy N or ENTJ with heavy S. If I had to guess..... ENTJ. Of course, I could take in more information and change my view 8 or 10 times in 2 hours lol, such is being an istp.

  10. #270
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Who cares about Hitler...to me it's pretty obvious he was not a "thinker" in MBTI terms. His biggest "quality" wasn't strategy-logic-decision making, and this is a fact, he was a good public speaker, probably one of the most notorious in all history. Without that, he wouldn't have done anything.
    Actually, I believe the T/F dichotomy is best described by the notion of "technical' vs "humane" considerations. My own renaming of the "impersonal" vs "personal" tag some use. Though just as "personal" becomes ambiguated in other discussions, "humane" might provoke a sense of bias in this one, since I think we would all agree he was "inhumane".

    That clears up stuff like "being a good public speaker", or "made military mistakes" as commonly held indicators of Feeling. The real determinant is whether his ultimate focus was personal (human) factors or technical (linear cause-and-effect, regardless of how it affects people). It clearly looks like that latter, which is why people argue T. Particularly TJ.
    Everyone uses both, of course, so you can point to humane considerations he made (looking out for his country, trying to eradicate what he saw as a threat, etc), but it's the way he went about it that was totally cold and impersonal. To me, that doesn't look like the normal "Feeling" of an (albeit) crazy man, but rather the deep shadow Feeling of a crazy man. It perfectly fits a "destructive" archetype. The real dominant goal was order brought through logical (technical, impersonal) means.

    Though you could turn it around and say that Te was the destructive function. I kind of go by the temperament view, where he is the perennial "Choleric" (gone wrong), and while ENFJ is part Choleric (Interaction Style), he seems more like a "full Choleric" ENTJ, and definitely not an Fe dominant.

    As for ESTJ, John Beebe suggested he was had destructive Ni instead, which would make him an ISJ. Not sure what his argument for that is (or which ISJ type), but then the same evidence could be used for ESTJ (Trickster Ni, which is almost as bad. And I see others are arguing ISTJ).

    In any case, Jung was reported to say he was untypable from being so psychologically messed up.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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