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  1. #251
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    A true intuitive would communicate in a direct but stable and non-intimidating way. Hitler's presentation style was pretty abusive, capitalizing on the here and now in a forceful and emotionally visceral way, which is the hallmark of an unhealthy and hyper-disciplined sensor. His paintings focus on details and capturing a moment instead of presenting ideas or concepts. Take for example an intuitive painter like Picasso. Totally different. Hitler was into uniforms, social hierarchy, and commanding people around. These are also specifically STJ traits, stemming from a fear of chaos and abandonment (people disrespected them so they feel the need to control everyone to establish approval). I could go on but I don't think it's going to do much to convince those who are missing the trees for the forest.
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  2. #252
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    >bcubchgo

    You make some pretty good points; I would have never considered Hitler an SJ. However when you say:

    >A true intuitive would communicate in a direct but stable and non-intimidating way.

    That's assuming that that "intuitive" has not lost his sh 1t....I think this is the Charlie Sheen thing again, where it's difficult to assess someone who's not making much logical sense in their actions and their ideas fairly for us to type. Hitler, while being the crazy genius that he was, was, in fact, crazy.

    I want to say INFJ because it seems Hitler would turn his F-dom and apply them to arguments that made sense only to him, ignoring other people's opinions if they undermined his inherent instinct. Furthermore, if it made sense to him, he would expect it to make sense to others, no exception. If not, then INTJs my next guess.

  3. #253
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Looking through his speeches he emotes in a major way. Clearly he was an extraverted feeling user.

  4. #254
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Resurrecting this thread.

    Anyone who is interested should check out the PBS special "inside the mind of hitler" airing this week - at least where I am. Gonna be broadcast on thurs in my city. They are going to psychologically profile hitler.
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  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    Resurrecting this thread.

    Anyone who is interested should check out the PBS special "inside the mind of hitler" airing this week - at least where I am. Gonna be broadcast on thurs in my city. They are going to psychologically profile hitler.
    It's probably the same documentary that I posted 3 pages ago.

  6. #256
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I'm reading Ian Kershaw's biography now. Granted, I've gotten only at 1930 so far, but...
    I'm heavily doubting the J. He always tries to postpone decisions, doesn't work towards deadlines, maintains a very chaotic lifestyle. I don't think that's an act, with some deliberate plan behind it.
    I get the impression that, whenever such a thing works, people think it had to be a consistent plan/purposeful acting from the beginning!

    So if you succeed, you're an NJ, if you fail, you're an NP?
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  7. #257
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    He is pretty good at organizing movements and creating structure out of disorder though.
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  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    I'm reading Ian Kershaw's biography now. Granted, I've gotten only at 1930 so far, but...
    I'm heavily doubting the J. He always tries to postpone decisions, doesn't work towards deadlines, maintains a very chaotic lifestyle. I don't think that's an act, with some deliberate plan behind it.
    I get the impression that, whenever such a thing works, people think it had to be a consistent plan/purposeful acting from the beginning!

    So if you succeed, you're an NJ, if you fail, you're an NP?
    I came to the same conclusion reading about him. He procrastinated a lot, was often late to meetings, and frequently relinquished responsibilities to others. He was an "idea man," a wayward idealist.

  9. #259
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    Here's one documentary that gets into aspects of Hitler's personality and how this effected the manner Nazi Germany was ruled.

    [youtube="YT0Q0uOOIdQ"]part 1[/youtube]
    [youtube="v6oieFvElBE"]Part 2[/youtube]
    In part 2 around 2:50 is when they talk about Hitler's personality most.
    [youtube="NbsSZT2cBu4"]part 3[/youtube]
    [youtube="oAprLOvAp3U"]part 4[/youtube]
    [youtube="aOPcWUyDS1c"]part 5[/youtube]

  10. #260
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    haha, i like hitler threads.

    in my opinion, the most likely type is INFJ.

    nothing about hitler's bearing reads as NTJ to me, though all of his conceptualizations read extremely strong Ni. Fe follows logically: not only is he a charismatic public speaker, but much of the way his vision for germany was to be achieved was through social classification and reorganization, Fe's domain. but it's not his lead: his speeches were tightly pre-scripted, and he cares about the vision first, even to the detriment of the people. i also swing towards introvert because he did not seem to be very externally expressive, he chose very isolated safehouses, and when his campaigns were going poorly, he retreated to solitude, instead of engaging the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo
    Hitler's presentation style was pretty abusive, capitalizing on the here and now in a forceful and emotionally visceral way, which is the hallmark of an unhealthy and hyper-disciplined sensor.
    or of someone raised in a violently abusive household. i actually also think if we were to classify hitler on the enneagram, he'd be sx-first - but a traumatized sx-first due to his father's abuse and his mother's death. it'd explain his emotional volatility and his merging with his vision to become the embodiment of nazi germany.

    he was also consistently using and eventually addicted to amphetamines, which throws the game a little. stimulant drugs can give you present-oriented hyperawareness and high emotional reactivity.

    Hitler was into uniforms, social hierarchy, and commanding people around. These are also specifically STJ traits, stemming from a fear of chaos and abandonment (people disrespected them so they feel the need to control everyone to establish approval). I could go on but I don't think it's going to do much to convince those who are missing the trees for the forest.
    i think you're kinda doing just that, though. if we zoom out and look at hitler, what we see is nazi germany. both through political strategizing and personal enthusiasm, hitler became his ideal. i don't really know how you can get any more NF than that.

    uniforms, social hierarchy, and commanding people are all easily explained by impersonally(Ni)- driven Fe. he was a strong prioritizer, but his prioritization was extremely socially-oriented, not so much Te logistics. i also don't see much Si in his goals - the "new order" was literally a new amalgamation of ideas, not based on previous experience or a return to traditionalism. it really only utilized old symbology (the roman salute, the swastika, etc, but those are abstract concepts - not the work of Si.) through a Si-Te mindset, i can hardly see the necessity of so many banners with a symbol that only possibly relates to german antiquity - it was considered a symbol of the aryan race, an N abstraction, more so than an S reality. additionally, the idea of german expansion deviated greatly from traditional ideas of maintaining a smaller state. the third reich was not working towards reestablishment, but attaining a new goal.

    plus hitler's own fear of chaos and abandonment (which i do agree with) is, imo, much more a result of his early childhood. his dad beat him severely and he retreated to his mother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alice Miller
    "The [Hitler] family structure could well be characterized as the prototype of a totalitarian regime. Its sole, undisputed, often brutal ruler is the father. The wife and children are totally subservient to his will, his moods, and his whims; they must accept humiliation and injustice unquestioningly and gratefully. Obedience is their primary rule of conduct."
    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    I came to the same conclusion reading about him. He procrastinated a lot, was often late to meetings, and frequently relinquished responsibilities to others. He was an "idea man," a wayward idealist.
    if we're considering type purely through functions, though, J doesn't actually have to do anything with any of those traits. (and an NJ i know procrastinates as much as i do, so i wouldn't go off that.) there are correlations, sure, but being late doesn't make you not a J. i find it hard to abandon the idea that he has Ni somewhere in his top 2 functions. Ne... it's powerful, but it's not focused. additionally, if he's an IxxJ, that makes him Perceiving dominant, despite J. an IxFJ is also more likely to be less externally organized than an IxTJ because Fe is more about social prioritizing.

    the only other type i could consider for him is INFP, but his relentless drive to structure doesn't seem very IxFP compatible. and does he strike us more as Harmonizer Clarifier or Foreseer Developer? i'm going with Foreseer Developer. plus, does this strike us as the idealism of someone who is highly attuned to subjective evaluation and individual difference:



    nope.

    but it does strike me as the idealism of someone who is somewhat uptight (J), and really into symbology (Ni) and social order (Fe).

    so, INFJ. but mine is just one opinion amongst many

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