[NT] INTP Fear of Intimacy

[Nihilen]

*buries hatchet*

 

[Wild horses]

As long as your not burying it in my back Nihilen lol

 

[Nihilen]

As long as your not burying it in my back Nihilen lol

That was not my intention.

But with your grammar, I bet you're asking for it.

 

[Wild horses]

gee thanks, and with your charm I bet you're the one who will answer

 

[Nihilen]

Not a matter of charm, only basic politeness.

 

[Salomé]

Aww thanks for the advice Bluemonday. You folks are truely lovely though and I remain optimistic that one day we will work it out lol

Honestly, I think intimacy may be more of a problem for male INTPs than for females.
I used to work with a guy that I've since come to realize was an INTP. Probably the first one I'd met since my best friend from childhood. Now this guy was a huge dork, completely brilliant but couldn't apply himself and so an underachiever. I wouldn't usually have given him the time of day, except that he turned out to be the most imaginatively funny person I have ever met. He made work fun for me, but I wasn't interested in anything beyond the good-humoured sparring that characterized our relationship. (Also he was really very effeminate and I thought he was probably gay but just not out.) There was no real intimacy between us, he hid his real self behind this clownish persona and didn't go in for self-revelation. Which was fine, but then he started telling everyone how crazy he was about me. He would follow me around and sigh and groan and ham it up like he was completely smitten. I just figured he was being an arse, or maybe overcompensating, but then a mutual friend indicated that he was serious and I should give him a chance.

I didn't tend to socialise with people from work back then, but he kept asking me out until I eventually gave in - but only if it was a group do. Anyway, there was a kind of turning point for me one night when we were both a bit the worse for drink and I had paid for a cab to take us on to someone's house after the pub closed. He insisted that that he pay, I refused, eventually he grabbed hold of me from behind, took my hand in both of his and forced it open to put the money inside. This might sound strange but I found that incredibly erotic, even though, or perhaps because, there was no overt sexual overtone. It still makes me tingly just thinking about it....I guess you would have had to have been there...

Anyway, I started to think, maybe this wouldn't be so bad... I made myself more available, I arranged things so that we could be alone, thinking things would just take their natural course. But although he would still be very flirtatious publicly, when we were alone he completely froze up on me, like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights. He seemed incapable of normal affection. This was very, very frustrating for me. I had to leave that job eventually because I just couldn't take the headgames.

Anyway, this experience (amongst others), has led me to conclude me that introverted thinking men, while they can be great friends, do not make good partners, especially not for introverted women, it is just too much hard work, with too little payoff.

 

[RDF]

I see inter-type irritations in terms of the Inferior function. That is, at my stage in life (early-mid 50s), most people are good at engaging both their Dominant and Auxiliary. But if we're really going to get along, we have to connect with good Inferiors. Otherwise we're just connecting with each other briefly and superficially (which is fine for brief conversations, but not for much else), or we're rubbing each other the wrong way when stuck together for longer periods.

For example, dealing with:

Another INFP

In a conversation with another INFP, we can get whimsical or imaginative or deep into intangibles using Fi (Dominant) and Ne (Auxiliary). But if we're going to get a little more personal than that, then we both need to have some decent Te. For example, an INFP with poor Te will never let you into their house--if you get in their house and comment on any little thing they'll assume that you're putting down their way of living and quickly get defensive. You have to stay away from personal/tangible details or they clam up and get sullen.

I see that as immaturity. If they're doing something strange with their money management or furniture arrangements or upkeep of their house, naturally I'm going to ask. Maybe I'll even judge them as deficient in that area. But they don't need to freak out about it and get defensive. Not everyone's good at everything. Keep a cool head and explain that you don't have time for everything but you expect to get around to it soon. Lighten up. So you're not good at housekeeping. Most INFPs aren't. Put it on display and let the chips fall where they may.

Use your Te to keep an even keel. Decide what you want to accomplish with the person you're with and stick to that plan instead of getting peeved over any little comment or question.

INTPs

Same thing with INTPs and their Fe. One inquiry too many, and they shut down. Or they get peevish and use stressed-out Fe to get all J and poke and prod at me and get me to back off.

Most older INTPs are actually pretty good at Fe to some extent. They're perfectionists, and they're not totally oblivious to the fact that they have to get along with people. But it tends to be hit-and-miss. They're good for a while or good on certain subjects and can do as effective an Fe as an INFJ. But then they hit their limit or I touch on a sore spot, and they turn sullen or or get peevish and start going on the attack.

Consistency, people! Figure out who you want to be (Fe-wise) and stick with it. Don't run hot and cold. Either be the nice guy or be the prick; but don't switch back and forth. I don't give a damn about your precious autonomy. I'm not trying to take it away from you; I just don't give a damn one way or the other. If you don't get all stressed about it, I won't either. If I'm pressing you to do something you don't want to do, just say pleasantly, "Well, that's not the way I usually do things, but I'm open to new ideas. Let me think about it at my leisure." There's a nice little formulation for this in the business world: "I'll take it under consideration." And then change the subject.

A little focus goes a long way. Figure out a sustainable level of Fe, and then maintain it. Get over your fear of being "found out" and you may learn that you're not so very different from the rest of us anyway.


ENTPs and ENFPs

My Ne loves your Ne. But your Ne is Dominant and my Ne is Auxiliary. Sooner or later I burn out and start getting whiplash. Use your Inferior Si and settle on a subject and go into it in detail.

You Ne-Doms both hate details. Details drive you nuts and leave you vulnerable to fact-checking and correction. So you prefer to wrench the conversation this way and that--that's when you feel you're at your strongest and most entertaining. But you burn me out that way. Frankly I like ENTPs and ENFPs best in the workplace where we have to sit down together on a project and bump heads over the details at a leisurely pace. The ENTPs and ENFPs freak out and start getting defensive when I prove better on the details (and I suck at details compared to practically any other type), but I tell them I don't care; I just want a second pair of eyes. If I can get them calmed down about that, they're good company on a project.

If you're telling me about some recent incident in your life, then stop and focus and think about what actually happened. Don't just skim over the surface and figure "it's good enough for government work." Don't ramp up the details or change them around for effect. Because most likely I'm going to want to know more, and you're going to get caught out when you have to go into more detail. If that happens, don't get flustered and freak out and try to change the subject. Just stop, think for a second about exactly how things occurred, and say pleasantly, "Wait a minute, I gave you the quick version. If you want to know all the details, here's how it happened." Then go slow and round all the bases one by one.

Also, pay attention to your surroundings and your listener. Do some detail-collecting, if only for practice. Put the spotlight on the other person and dig for the extended story. Slowing things down and asking questions doesn't create a commitment; it's just a courtesy. You're just J-ing down the pace of the interaction to make it more consistent and more leisurely, and to suit the person you're with instead of yourself.

 

[Jack Flak]

Anyway, I started to think, maybe this wouldn't be so bad... I made myself more available, I arranged things so that we could be alone, thinking things would just take their natural course. But although he would still be very flirtatious publicly, when we were alone he completely froze up on me, like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights. He seemed incapable of normal affection. This was very, very frustrating for me. I had to leave that job eventually because I just couldn't take the headgames.

Anyway, this experience (amongst others), has led me to conclude me that introverted thinking men, while they can be great friends, do not make good partners, especially not for introverted women, it is just too much hard work, with too little payoff.

That isn't like some of us at all, I'll tell you that. The last time I was in a relatively similar situation, as in alone together for the first time, I said "You know I have to kiss you right now." I hadn't even been drinking.

 

[runvardh]

That isn't like some of us at all, I'll tell you that. The last time I was in a relatively similar situation, as in alone together for the first time, I said "You know I have to kiss you right now." I hadn't even been drinking.

From your posts, you also seem to be further along maturity-wise, than the guy she was talking about.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Hmmm... I want intimacy very badly. I am afraid to take the initiative generally, in establishing intimacy. However, if someone I accept takes the initiative to form intimacy with me, then I don't fear it. I let it happen, because I want to happen.

I don't fear intimacy. I fear making misplaced attempts to form it.

 

[INTJMom]

That isn't like some of us at all, I'll tell you that. The last time I was in a relatively similar situation, as in alone together for the first time, I said "You know I have to kiss you right now." I hadn't even been drinking.

1. Did you make up that line on the spot or did you prepare it ahead of time?
2. Did it work?

 

[Jack Flak]

1. Did you make up that line on the spot or did you prepare it ahead of time?
2. Did it work?

1. On the spot.
2. Yes ma'am!

 

[betterthandead]

i read some place that the following types have the worst marriage types

intp
esfp
infp
estp

seems funny that their dual is like them.

only istp is the only perceiver that is the highest of marriage types. like 45% compared to the above perceivers who are 35%, typical judgers like isfj/istj tend to score 50%+ the second highest perceiver would be isfp.

 

[Jack Flak]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN "marriage types?"

 

[Darjur]

Generally, I'd phrase that we fear the unknown aspect of a relationship more, than we have a fear of intimacy.

 

[INTJMom]

1. On the spot.
2. Yes ma'am!

I'm not surprised.

 

[Llewellyn]

Fear of losing authority, yeah in a way it is that. Speaking from myself, I easily get the idea to lose myself in whatever interaction.

Also, I mainly want to be honest who to be intimate with. Not that I have much experience. It's a fact I could get intimate with a lot, it's just difficult to decide which single one I would be intimate with.

From a partly speculative perspective...

 

[Llewellyn]

Didn't read the whole thread here, but for myself, per the OP, it is not fear of intimacy, persay.

Intimacy is, or was until I was roughly 30, "the unknown". I simply had no clue how it was supposed to work, nobody uploaded the protocols into my head that everyone else seemed to know, take for granted, and assume was "common sense" which FUCK YOU no it is not, it makes NO SENSE most of the time and is a poorly cobbled together pile of loosely tied patchwork that most people disagree on when it boils down to basics. I was terrified of being "found out" that I was a freak, basically, even though for all intents and purposes I really wasn't. It was a long, long time before I realized that I was so clueless that I was depending on the other person's judgement for whether or not I was "doing it right". Then I realized, wait, WTF? I don't value these people's judgements about anything else...why the hell am I so worried they're going to tell me I'm a bad person?

So, do I fear intimacy? Not directly. I fear the unknown, and since intimate dealings were opaque as crap, they scared me. Plenty of blunt-force-trauma in relationships later, I'm totally inured (ha ha "a nerd" ba-dum-tsh)

Right... I'm up to 30 (28). But I'm not afraid of the unknown. Or I reverse known and unknown in some things...

I'm so completely conscious, of opportunities, but it just doesn't 'get' there. I talk to myself and still see it happening the other way. I'm only now, at this age, grounding and starting to enjoy (more aspects of) normal life.

 

[Twixt]

Betrayal: Others using information you have shared with them (whether it's just an opinion, or your feelings, or something you liked/dislike, or something you appreciated, or a political stance, or personal belief) in order to hurt you (if they are mad at you) or to otherwise try to make you do something against your will.

Stuff like that.

Note that this is one reason why many INTPs despise Fe early on. Immature Fe easily abuses the sort of disclosures an INTP might make.

What about... telling other people about your discussions with the INTP? Is that considered betrayal? I mean, telling other people about your discussions with the INTP (and the info you got out of it) with no mean intentions whatsoever? Like, just telling other people about it in hope that they could offer some advice/insight into the INTP?
Especially if you are very confused by said INTP.

 

[Totenkindly]

What about... telling other people about your discussions with the INTP? Is that considered betrayal? I mean, telling other people about your discussions with the INTP (and the info you got out of it) with no mean intentions whatsoever? Like, just telling other people about it in hope that they could offer some advice/insight into the INTP?
Especially if you are very confused by said INTP.

Hmmm... I think you have to be careful. It could go either way.

Some INTPs might be "detached" enough that they see it just as information-exchange.

Other INTPs might feel very touchy about personal conversations, like you're spreading stories about them behind their backs, and they don't have control over things they shared they thought were secret.

If you're not sure, but you feel compelled to ask for advice (and really are doing it for good reason), either make sure that the INTP in question is not at all identifiable by your comments, and/or that it is in a very closed environment so that they'll never ever find out (obviously that still has risks). If you can clear it with the INTP, that's even better; but that might not often be possible, depending on the situation.

You should try hard to keep everything impersonal, so that it is viewed as information-exchange and not some sort of emotional outburst/dumpage or an attempt to manipulate socially in some way. Always assume the INTP in question *will* find out at some point, so you should keep your comments as clean as possible from obvious bias or negative representation.