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[NT] INTP Fear of Intimacy

Kaizer

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Cliche'd as it is, figured I'd quote this, an excerpt referred to by some as the utterance of a solipsist :

“I believe if there’s any kind of God, it wouldn’t be in any of us, not you or me but just this little space in between. If there’s any kind of magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone, sharing something. I know, it’s almost impossible to succeed, but who cares, really? The answer must be in the attempt.”

- Celine in Before Sunrise (1995)
 

NoahFence

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Yeah, that's the thing. I just run into a lot of extraverts that get offended and act as if I'm a snob if I don't want to have a big ole four hour conversation on the airplane, or if I'd rather go home after work than go out for drinks. Why can't THAT just be what it is?

:cheers:

Didn't read the whole thread here, but for myself, per the OP, it is not fear of intimacy, persay.

Intimacy is, or was until I was roughly 30, "the unknown". I simply had no clue how it was supposed to work, nobody uploaded the protocols into my head that everyone else seemed to know, take for granted, and assume was "common sense" which FUCK YOU no it is not, it makes NO SENSE most of the time and is a poorly cobbled together pile of loosely tied patchwork that most people disagree on when it boils down to basics. I was terrified of being "found out" that I was a freak, basically, even though for all intents and purposes I really wasn't. It was a long, long time before I realized that I was so clueless that I was depending on the other person's judgement for whether or not I was "doing it right". Then I realized, wait, WTF? I don't value these people's judgements about anything else...why the hell am I so worried they're going to tell me I'm a bad person?

So, do I fear intimacy? Not directly. I fear the unknown, and since intimate dealings were opaque as crap, they scared me. Plenty of blunt-force-trauma in relationships later, I'm totally inured (ha ha "a nerd" ba-dum-tsh)
 

Salomé

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Hmm... what do ya think?

Actually, I HATE that expression and would never use it. The first time someone said that to me (he happened to be a good friend - I guess you'd have to know Glaswegians to understand that), I nearly fainted with disgust.

But even more than that, I hate double standards for men and women in such matters.

EDIT. Or any matters.
 

Totenkindly

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Actually, I HATE that expression and would never use it. The first time someone said that to me (he happened to be a good friend - I guess you'd have to know Glaswegians to understand that), I nearly fainted with disgust.

Which expression?
- F.O.A.D.
- "I"m not responsible for your feelings."

This was a little confusing, considering what you quoted from my post.

But even more than that, I hate double standards for men and women in such matters.

And what is the double standard again? I'm a little unclear.

I'm not for double standards; however, I'm fine for people needing potentially different things or having inherently different values in a relationship and thus those things need to be accommodated in a specific relationship. And as far as gender relations go, it could probably be debated that a large chunk of women look for something in relationships that a chunk of men do not, and vice versa; or are bothered by something that men aren't, and vice versa.

Avoid prejudice; do be aware of and accommodate general values.
 

Salomé

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Which expression?
- F.O.A.D.
- "I"m not responsible for your feelings."

This was a little confusing, considering what you quoted from my post.

And what is the double standard again? I'm a little unclear.

The first.

My "use" of it was in response to this:

Oh, to be a guy in a case like that. If you're a girl and say that, a social WWIII starts.

That's the double standard that irks me.

Your comment suggested that you might have taken offense. So I was attempting to clarify the ironical tone.....not very well, apparently....

:huh:
 

Lady_X

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
I relate to that. Not only do I not count on people until they've shown they can be counted upon, nor show affection before I have a good read on a person, it's extremely rare for me to flake out and ditch someone without good reason. I can only remember doing that once, and I would take it back if I could. In friendships or relationships, I keep promises until it's impossible not to. It would violate my internal code of honor to break them, or betray someone's trust, and I would feel like less of a human being.




:wubbie:

INTPs are teh best.

ummm...yeah...nice :wubbie:

and...i appreciate the above exchange quite a lot...a lot to think about...thanks..
 

Totenkindly

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The first.

Oh. That was my second choice, glad I asked.

That's the double standard that irks me.

Oh.

Your comment suggested that you might have taken offense. So I was attempting to clarify the ironical tone.....not very well, apparently....:huh:

Yeah, I am even more clueless than I was before about what was getting said, but don't feel like going back to research. :alttongue:

...At least you know I probably wasn't offended... :smile:
 

Lady_X

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Hahaha, well, there is something to that. I think we're a little mistrustful of those who seem like they've always been able to waltz through life on the merits of their charms. I tend to like ENFPs, though.

My problem isn't so much that an ENFP would talk to me for an hour and then walk away and that be the end of it. I have no problems chitchatting with someone on a superficial, fun level to pass the time, if it's someone that's easy to talk to. Not a fan of smalltalk in general, but there are definitely times where I'll strike up a conversation with someone, and I have no expectations of them for going forward.

What I cannot, and WILL not do, no matter who gets mad at me, is open up and share intimate, personal things, or things that I consider private, just because someone wants to be entertained for an hour or two. I will just not bite, because if I did, I would feel violated. Keep it at fluff-level, and we'll be fine. Otherwise, you'll have to be a real friend in order to know more.

this thread is SO interesting...and i am such an enfp! i had no idea! shit!

so...is it considered crass almost for someone to expect a personal exchange so quickly...because...the fluff...isn't as interesting...and i think there's this deep desire for connection...i'm not sure i know how to relate to people differently...but i'll have to learn if it's offensive
 

Wild horses

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I also love INTPs but the thing is their 'fear of intimacy' can lead to many problems with communication and its just so hard to get things off the ground then. My dealings with INTPs have often fallen down because the INTP somehow believes that I'm the 'confident one' which couldn't be further from the truth actually, if I feel something strongly enough I don't really like to share it with just any ole person (Sometimes I do but its usually a mistake or me being caught up in the moment) so then the relationship goes something like this

INTP: (Thinks to himself) Look at the way she is with others, pouring her love out to everyone and anyone that walks buy and is prepared to throw her a bone. She doesn't really give me the time of day, so I don't want this persons cheap emotions anyway

ENFP: (Thinks to herself) Ok this guy doesn't really like me in fact I would go so far as to say he hates me or at the very mildest I irritate him. I have really strong feelings for him too, how unfortunate! Good job I find it hard to express my most deepest emotions and so haven't made a complete fool of myself yet with someone who holds me in contempt.

INTP: Ok haven't seen this person in like weeks! I know she is being a good friend to everyone else she knows, just not me **** her. I don't even want her friendship anymore

ENFP: Been trying to give the INTP the space he needs, also trying not to piss him off. Been good for about a day and a half(Which to me seems like centuries) I will try to be friendly again cos I want to keep friends if nothing else.

ENFP extends an olive branch to her friend, INTP snaps the branch in half and instead of saying "You haven't been treating me much like a friend lately" So ENFP can have some idea whats been going on in his head and explain herself ,INTP simply says, "We were never friends!" ENFP smiles and agrees, (Must keep the harmony) and then goes home to sob and moan forevermore about INTPs on forums such as this....

Not that this has ever happened to me or anything! LOL
 

Nihilen

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I also love INTPs but the thing is their 'fear of intimacy' can lead to many problems with communication and its just so hard to get things off the ground then. My dealings with INTPs have often fallen down because the INTP somehow believes that I'm the 'confident one' which couldn't be further from the truth actually, if I feel something strongly enough I don't really like to share it with just any ole person (Sometimes I do but its usually a mistake or me being caught up in the moment) so then the relationship goes something like this

INTP: (Thinks to himself) Look at the way she is with others, pouring her love out to everyone and anyone that walks buy and is prepared to throw her a bone. She doesn't really give me the time of day, so I don't want this persons cheap emotions anyway

ENFP: (Thinks to herself) Ok this guy doesn't really like me in fact I would go so far as to say he hates me or at the very mildest I irritate him. I have really strong feelings for him too, how unfortunate! Good job I find it hard to express my most deepest emotions and so haven't made a complete fool of myself yet with someone who holds me in contempt.

INTP: Ok haven't seen this person in like weeks! I know she is being a good friend to everyone else she knows, just not me **** her. I don't even want her friendship anymore

ENFP: Been trying to give the INTP the space he needs, also trying not to piss him off. Been good for about a day and a half(Which to me seems like centuries) I will try to be friendly again cos I want to keep friends if nothing else.

ENFP extends an olive branch to her friend, INTP snaps the branch in half and instead of saying "You haven't been treating me much like a friend lately" So ENFP can have some idea whats been going on in his head and explain herself ,INTP simply says, "We were never friends!" ENFP smiles and agrees, (Must keep the harmony) and then goes home to sob and moan forevermore about INTPs on forums such as this....

Not that this has ever happened to me or anything! LOL

Ahaha, that made me smile, well the INTP part did.
 

Tallulah

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this thread is SO interesting...and i am such an enfp! i had no idea! shit!

so...is it considered crass almost for someone to expect a personal exchange so quickly...because...the fluff...isn't as interesting...and i think there's this deep desire for connection...i'm not sure i know how to relate to people differently...but i'll have to learn if it's offensive

Well...for me, it is. I have to trust people before I'm going to tell them anything personal. And even then, it usually just comes up situationally. I've always hated forced intimacy. And it always made me uncomfortable to be in a situation where a few acquaintances were sitting around spilling their guts like it was the greatest thing in the world, and there was an expectation created. B/c then I won't spill my guts, and get branded a snob.

I think in the past I was a little more willing to open up, but I quickly learned that some people can't be trusted with the information you give them. Especially in a situation where you're in a group of people who are thrown together, not necessarily friends. Some people will act friendly to you, try to get you to open up to them, and then stab you in the back. I can accept that some people are douchebags, but I have kind of a douchebag filter for such a purpose. I'm not opening up unless I'm sure you're a real friend.

The other thing is, I haven't known that many NFs in my life, but I have a few NF friends IRL now. It's hard for me to navigate them sometimes, because they seem to feel like you don't trust them if you're not constantly confessing something. And I'm not a big confessor anyway, even if I do trust you. There has to be a reason to share it, or it has to come up organically. In those cases, it's not that I WON'T share something with you; it's just that I'm not as confessional by nature as you are.


I also love INTPs but the thing is their 'fear of intimacy' can lead to many problems with communication and its just so hard to get things off the ground then. My dealings with INTPs have often fallen down because the INTP somehow believes that I'm the 'confident one' which couldn't be further from the truth actually, if I feel something strongly enough I don't really like to share it with just any ole person (Sometimes I do but its usually a mistake or me being caught up in the moment) so then the relationship goes something like this

INTP: (Thinks to himself) Look at the way she is with others, pouring her love out to everyone and anyone that walks buy and is prepared to throw her a bone. She doesn't really give me the time of day, so I don't want this persons cheap emotions anyway

ENFP: (Thinks to herself) Ok this guy doesn't really like me in fact I would go so far as to say he hates me or at the very mildest I irritate him. I have really strong feelings for him too, how unfortunate! Good job I find it hard to express my most deepest emotions and so haven't made a complete fool of myself yet with someone who holds me in contempt.

INTP: Ok haven't seen this person in like weeks! I know she is being a good friend to everyone else she knows, just not me **** her. I don't even want her friendship anymore

ENFP: Been trying to give the INTP the space he needs, also trying not to piss him off. Been good for about a day and a half(Which to me seems like centuries) I will try to be friendly again cos I want to keep friends if nothing else.

ENFP extends an olive branch to her friend, INTP snaps the branch in half and instead of saying "You haven't been treating me much like a friend lately" So ENFP can have some idea whats been going on in his head and explain herself ,INTP simply says, "We were never friends!" ENFP smiles and agrees, (Must keep the harmony) and then goes home to sob and moan forevermore about INTPs on forums such as this....

Not that this has ever happened to me or anything! LOL

Oh, wow! Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate, too. I'm learning that ENFPs choose their friends pretty selectively, even though they can be really popular. Heh, INTPs will always assume they are the least socially competitent person in the relationship.
 

Salomé

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I also love INTPs but the thing is their 'fear of intimacy' can lead to many problems with communication and its just so hard to get things off the ground then. My dealings with INTPs have often fallen down because the INTP somehow believes that I'm the 'confident one' which couldn't be further from the truth actually, if I feel something strongly enough I don't really like to share it with just any ole person (Sometimes I do but its usually a mistake or me being caught up in the moment) so then the relationship goes something like this

INTP: (Thinks to himself) Look at the way she is with others, pouring her love out to everyone and anyone that walks buy and is prepared to throw her a bone. She doesn't really give me the time of day, so I don't want this persons cheap emotions anyway

ENFP: (Thinks to herself) Ok this guy doesn't really like me in fact I would go so far as to say he hates me or at the very mildest I irritate him. I have really strong feelings for him too, how unfortunate! Good job I find it hard to express my most deepest emotions and so haven't made a complete fool of myself yet with someone who holds me in contempt.

INTP: Ok haven't seen this person in like weeks! I know she is being a good friend to everyone else she knows, just not me **** her. I don't even want her friendship anymore

ENFP: Been trying to give the INTP the space he needs, also trying not to piss him off. Been good for about a day and a half(Which to me seems like centuries) I will try to be friendly again cos I want to keep friends if nothing else.

ENFP extends an olive branch to her friend, INTP snaps the branch in half and instead of saying "You haven't been treating me much like a friend lately" So ENFP can have some idea whats been going on in his head and explain herself ,INTP simply says, "We were never friends!" ENFP smiles and agrees, (Must keep the harmony) and then goes home to sob and moan forevermore about INTPs on forums such as this....

Not that this has ever happened to me or anything! LOL

Wow! Sucks to be you!
Give up. INTPs are just not worth it hon.
 

INA

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Wow! Sucks to be you!
Give up. INTPs are just not worth it hon.

:laugh: short, sweet and to the point.

Well...for me, it is. I have to trust people before I'm going to tell them anything personal. And even then, it usually just comes up situationally. I've always hated forced intimacy. And it always made me uncomfortable to be in a situation where a few acquaintances were sitting around spilling their guts like it was the greatest thing in the world, and there was an expectation created. B/c then I won't spill my guts, and get branded a snob.
Story of my life. It rings cheap and false to me.
 

runvardh

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Wow! Sucks to be you!
Give up. INTPs are just not worth it hon.

I found one worth it before; she was intense, but in a good way. Too bad I had to flake out, worry I wasn't worth her attentions, and then pull a self-fuffilling prophecy. :(
 

Salomé

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I found one worth it before; she was intense, but in a good way. Too bad I had to flake out, worry I wasn't worth her attentions, and then pull a self-fuffilling prophecy. :(

You probably weren't, TBF.
 

Lady_X

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Well...for me, it is. I have to trust people before I'm going to tell them anything personal. And even then, it usually just comes up situationally. I've always hated forced intimacy. And it always made me uncomfortable to be in a situation where a few acquaintances were sitting around spilling their guts like it was the greatest thing in the world, and there was an expectation created. B/c then I won't spill my guts, and get branded a snob.

I think in the past I was a little more willing to open up, but I quickly learned that some people can't be trusted with the information you give them. Especially in a situation where you're in a group of people who are thrown together, not necessarily friends. Some people will act friendly to you, try to get you to open up to them, and then stab you in the back. I can accept that some people are douchebags, but I have kind of a douchebag filter for such a purpose. I'm not opening up unless I'm sure you're a real friend.

The other thing is, I haven't known that many NFs in my life, but I have a few NF friends IRL now. It's hard for me to navigate them sometimes, because they seem to feel like you don't trust them if you're not constantly confessing something. And I'm not a big confessor anyway, even if I do trust you. There has to be a reason to share it, or it has to come up organically. In those cases, it's not that I WON'T share something with you; it's just that I'm not as confessional by nature as you are.




Oh, wow! Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate, too. I'm learning that ENFPs choose their friends pretty selectively, even though they can be really popular. Heh, INTPs will always assume they are the least socially competitent person in the relationship.

completely understandable...but have you not also sensed the enfp respects you enough to give you the space for that...i feel like i do...and also feel like i am/we are picky and when we act interested it's because we are...sorry to speak for other people...but this is true for me... when they/i ask questions...it's not just for kicks...if we act like we care...it's because we do...and can't pretend we don't....

but...i completely understand the need to warm up first and decide if this is someone you want to know like that...i get that...i think...we/ i just decide that more quickly...but...idk...haha
damn...sorry...did you even want to know all that!!?? haha
 

Tallulah

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completely understandable...but have you not also sensed the enfp respects you enough to give you the space for that...i feel like i do...and also feel like i am/we are picky and when we act interested it's because we are...sorry to speak for other people...but this is true for me... when they/i ask questions...it's not just for kicks...if we act like we care...it's because we do...and can't pretend we don't....

but...i completely understand the need to warm up first and decide if this is someone you want to know like that...i get that...i think...we/ i just decide that more quickly...but...idk...haha
damn...sorry...did you even want to know all that!!?? haha

Yeah, I have sensed that...I think my ENFP friend is probably the one that understands the most about there being a time and a place for opening up, and not pushing it. She's probably the person that's been the most supportive and helpful when I have opened up, as well.

One of my INFJ friends is the one that has the hardest time with me not opening up as much as she wants me to. Because she's always confessing stuff to me, and I feel like she wants immediate reciprocation, and I can't always do that. I'm a good listener, and I'm non-judgmental, and I don't mind people telling me their stuff if they want to. I just don't like feeling like there's pressure on to start confession-time, too. She's pretty good about giving me space, but every once in a while she'll make a comment like she hopes one day I'll trust her enough to tell her stuff. Which is funny, because I have told her things before. I don't know if she wants a constant stream of it, or what? :D
 

Wild horses

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I'm glad you INTPs at least realise that us ENFP don't actually wear out hearts on our sleeves (Well ot our real ones anyway lol)X
 

Wild horses

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Aww thanks for the advice Bluemonday. You folks are truely lovely though and I remain optimistic that one day we will work it out lol
 
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