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[NT] INTP Fear of Intimacy

Jack Flak

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I don't think anyone is comparing themselves to you, Rachel, saying "Look, I'm better!" I certainly wasn't. You have to be ENFP, you have no choice. I happen to appreciate people of the type, and moreso after I keep it in mind that we're not the same.

I would only recommend being mindful of that, that we are different, having different motivations, and take this into consideration when dealing with people.
 

substitute

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I guess I'm wondering if you think every interaction merits a potential for a long term relationship.

Yes, I do. I'm sorta puzzled that you don't... :huh:

What do you suggest I do? I don't want to come across as shallow or fake, but I'm not sure how much of that is my responsibility. Would you prefer no expression of interest at all?

Well, there's a line between "no interest at all" and "sit and talk with me for an hour laughing and joking and seeming to get along great". Somewhere in the middle of that line is "said hello and welcomed me, behaved in a civil and polite way, but didn't go out of their way to talk one on one or show any particular personal interest". And other manifestations... I dunno... just think about the signals you're sending out, I guess... imagine the roles reversed now and again whilst you're talking (imagine yourself as them, not you in their position, and I know you can do this with that Ne!)

But anyway it doesn't matter what I suggest. I'm not a social guru lol I'm just the guy who gets my brother's cast-off friends when he's either bored of them or they've become too disillusioned to worship him any more ;)

I wouldn't try to suggest that everything that's relevant to my brother therefore is to you just cos you share the same test result, I guess it's up to you to pick what you think's relevant from it :)
 

Rachelinpa

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I don't think anyone is comparing themselves to you, Rachel, saying "Look, I'm better!" I certainly wasn't. You have to be ENFP, you have no choice. I happen to appreciate people of the type, and moreso after I keep it in mind that we're not the same.

Haha. Trust me, I know I have no choice. But, it doesn't mean that I can't grow or learn.

As for role reversal, I experience that a fair amount myself. ESFPs frequently flake out on me. Probably some of my insensitivity can be traced back to thinking people should just rise above it. If something stems from a connection, then great, but if not, sure it's disappointing, but you can't make it their responsibility or let it get you down.
 

Salomé

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ENFPs are naturally flirtatious and charismatic. They aren't always conscious of how their behaviour might be interpreted.

They make people fall for them and then they're all like "Who me? Whadidido?" :puppyeyes:
Gotta luv 'em!
 

Rachelinpa

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Yes, I do. I'm sorta puzzled that you don't...

You know what... actually... maybe it is primarily related to being burned by this myself. Maybe I have assumed this is how it is and I just need to be a stronger person and take care of myself.

Ok, wait, yes. I think it all has to do with avoidance of rejection. If I am the one being friendly and choosing the fate of our relationship, I am thereby avoiding any potential for rejection at least in the beginning. Sounds terrible, but probably at least some truth in that.
 

Rachelinpa

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ENFPs are naturally flirtatious and charismatic. They aren't always conscious of how their behaviour might be interpreted.

Yeah, I don't think about it all of the time, but there probably are subconscious reasons for my actions. Which of course, I am concerned with... meaning. Yay!
 

Rachelinpa

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On another note, it sometimes seems like the INTPs I have met (and I have only met about two in real life), deliberately intend not to like me because they think everyone else does. I should not be able to get away with being liked so quickly and they will not like me just because it seems to be a theme. Not saying they are jealous, but it's almost like... it should be earned beyond sincere friendliness. And, I don't mind this. Probably why there is somewhat of a draw for me. It's different and challenging. They don't just dish out affection like the others.

Of course, I could be completely off target, but it does seem that way at times.
 

Simplexity

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I know its been said already and elaborated and discussed deeply, but honestly just the concept of investing sizable amounts of my personality to others consistently is incomprehensible. It's just like fundamentally impossible for that to happen, sometimes I would even say I'm more withdrawn and less revealing because once I unravel it takes a while to comeback. I just can't maintain any state like that. I just don't get any joy out of that. I would elaborate but its just like i'm just playing games with myself personally, I wouldn't have anytime to really enjoy others company because I'd sort of be repulsed by manipulating myself like that. Like I care enough about other people to do that just for their brief enjoyment.
 

Tallulah

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On another note, it sometimes seems like the INTPs I have met (and I have only met about two in real life), deliberately intend not to like me because they think everyone else does. I should not be able to get away with being liked so quickly and they will not like me just because it seems to be a theme. Not saying they are jealous, but it's almost like... it should be earned beyond sincere friendliness. And, I don't mind this. Probably why there is somewhat of a draw for me. It's different and challenging. They don't just dish out affection like the others.

Of course, I could be completely off target, but it does seem that way at times.


Hahaha, well, there is something to that. I think we're a little mistrustful of those who seem like they've always been able to waltz through life on the merits of their charms. I tend to like ENFPs, though.

My problem isn't so much that an ENFP would talk to me for an hour and then walk away and that be the end of it. I have no problems chitchatting with someone on a superficial, fun level to pass the time, if it's someone that's easy to talk to. Not a fan of smalltalk in general, but there are definitely times where I'll strike up a conversation with someone, and I have no expectations of them for going forward.

What I cannot, and WILL not do, no matter who gets mad at me, is open up and share intimate, personal things, or things that I consider private, just because someone wants to be entertained for an hour or two. I will just not bite, because if I did, I would feel violated. Keep it at fluff-level, and we'll be fine. Otherwise, you'll have to be a real friend in order to know more.
 

Salomé

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On another note, it sometimes seems like the INTPs I have met (and I have only met about two in real life), deliberately intend not to like me because they think everyone else does. I should not be able to get away with being liked so quickly and they will not like me just because it seems to be a theme. Not saying they are jealous, but it's almost like... it should be earned beyond sincere friendliness. And, I don't mind this. Probably why there is somewhat of a draw for me. It's different and challenging. They don't just dish out affection like the others.

Of course, I could be completely off target, but it does seem that way at times.

Hmmm....doesn't sound like the sorta thing an INTP would do. We usually have our reasons.....

I've never met an ENFP IRL, I didn't like. At least, initially.
 

Jack Flak

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On another note, it sometimes seems like the INTPs I have met (and I have only met about two in real life), deliberately intend not to like me because they think everyone else does. I should not be able to get away with being liked so quickly and they will not like me just because it seems to be a theme. Not saying they are jealous, but it's almost like... it should be earned beyond sincere friendliness. And, I don't mind this. Probably why there is somewhat of a draw for me. It's different and challenging. They don't just dish out affection like the others.

Of course, I could be completely off target, but it does seem that way at times.
It would probably be recognition that they aren't being singled out for attention. If the INTP realizes that you're universally friendly, they will be nonplussed by said friendliness, unless they have some other reason to be impressed with you.
 

substitute

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I think people believe that I am the opposite of this, but that is because they don't actually know who I am. It appears that I am trusting of most people, but in reality very few people know the actual me -- like INTP, I don't count on people until I know they can be trusted either. And, as it has been said, it seems I have more real friends than I do.

Just looking again at this, makes me wonder... so you consider yourself wrongly judged by those who think of you as untrustworthy, and yet you admit that there are aspects of your behaviour that can mislead others into making that judgement... in light of this, do you think that perhaps your criteria for judging whether others can be trusted might need some revision?

I just say that because... "reject first" doesn't seem too great a strategy for making "real friends", so I'm wondering whether you're actually rejecting people who can be trusted, on a regular basis... ;)

edit - the same can be said of a lot of people actually, I can turn that on its head and say I often find INTP's difficult to trust simply because they won't trust me, not even a basic 'interim' trust if you know what I mean, benefit of the doubt kinda thing. I tend to conclude that since we so often misread each other and since objective evidence seems to favour the idea that most people are basically good, at least in intention, the best solution is to just give everyone the benefit of the doubt and trust them, then as you get to know them, make the odd mental note of their weak areas, those areas they're less competent or perhaps less disciplined in, so you're not distrusting their motives but just doubting their competence at carrying out their good intentions lol It doesn't have to stop there, though, cos you can always help them to increase their competence...
 

Rachelinpa

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I just say that because... "reject first" doesn't seem too great a strategy for making "real friends", so I'm wondering whether you're actually rejecting people who can be trusted, on a regular basis...

Probably.
 

Totenkindly

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On second thought, maybe it is situational (fickle!). I wish there was a more relational word for it though. I was talking to a scientist Saturday night at a party... I think he was an INTJ... anyway, he was really interesting to me, but I wasn't hoping to build a long term relationship with him. I was happy to talk to him for hours, but when the party ended, I wasn't hoping to carry it forward. I think this surprised him when he asked for my number and I said, "no." A reasonable example of situational, I guess.

That's interesting.

I don't know if that's ENFP or just extroversion at work.

I learned a long time ago as an introvert that I could not trust extroverts in general to respond as I would. They would engage in ways that to ME expressed a great deal of interest but to them meant little. Look at it from an introvert's POV: Why on earth would we want to invest HOURS in a conversation with someone if we weren't interested in continuing the relationship on some level? It takes a lot of energy to invest like that. I know I only go that long if I like the person and want to stay in touch; anyone else, I'd soon withdraw.

So I quickly learned that extroverts spending a lot of time with me meant nothings in terms of commitment or wanting to spend MORE time together. I no longer assume that, I keep a close guard on my heart that way to avoid over-extending myself now.


I'm not sure this is me being fickle though because I do not understand why they would assume my feelings were permanent in the first place. My interest in them is completely genuine, but I don't like feeling like I owe anything.

Probably at least for introverts because they wouldn't have invested if they hadn't been reading you as genuinely interested in them. The thought of investing so much in a connection without any intention of continuing at some level seems ridiculous; it's a waste of energy and there's no commitment.

And I won't even start with the gender influences where men and women interact and what expectations get dragged in then.
 

zago

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Is this a common trend for INTPs?

Yesterday, my roommate (INTP) told me that he thinks he has intimacy issues, but he does not know why. It seemed almost ESFP of him -- in that, he said he always wants it to be "fun." He has never been in a long term relationship and does not really seem to want one. I kept thinking of how that is sort of not even "real," (that is, the jumping from date to date -- fun experience to fun experience) but I couldn't put what I was thinking into words. I can somewhat relate because I am frequently bored also, but when it comes down to it, I know that I really would prefer the security of a consistent relationship than a thousand brief flings.

Do other INTPs experience this also? Is it a fear of intimacy or is it something else? Please teach me your ways.

I don't have a fear of intimacy, I just express it in a backwards way. If I like someone, I'll act like I hate them but in a way such that they know I am actually quite comfortable and happy. If I am gushing with a lot of "I love yous" and agreeing with someone a lot, it means something is probably either wrong or going to be wrong.
 

Orangey

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That's interesting.

I don't know if that's ENFP or just extroversion at work.

I learned a long time ago as an introvert that I could not trust extroverts in general to respond as I would. They would engage in ways that to ME expressed a great deal of interest but to them meant little. Look at it from an introvert's POV: Why on earth would we want to invest HOURS in a conversation with someone if we weren't interested in continuing the relationship on some level? It takes a lot of energy to invest like that. I know I only go that long if I like the person and want to stay in touch; anyone else, I'd soon withdraw.

So I quickly learned that extroverts spending a lot of time with me meant nothings in terms of commitment or wanting to spend MORE time together. I no longer assume that, I keep a close guard on my heart that way to avoid over-extending myself now.

Probably at least for introverts because they wouldn't have invested if they hadn't been reading you as genuinely interested in them. The thought of investing so much in a connection without any intention of continuing at some level seems ridiculous; it's a waste of energy and there's no commitment.

And I won't even start with the gender influences where men and women interact and what expectations get dragged in then.

This is all true. If I have no interest in getting to know a person past the point of initial conversation, then I cease to actually converse with this person or actively engage with them at any level. At parties/social gatherings of more than four or five people, this can make you look like a bit of a weirdo.
 

ajblaise

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This is all true. If I have no interest in getting to know a person past the point of initial conversation, then I cease to actually converse with this person or actively engage with them at any level. At parties/social gatherings of more than four or five people, this can make you look like a bit of a weirdo.

And it's the worst when the person you are trying to move past is a major extrovert. "Why do you hate me?!"...I've been asked this a few times. Unfortunately with extroverted girls it seems to only make them more interested.
 

Jack Flak

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And it's the worst when the person you are trying to move past is a major extrovert. "Why do you hate me?!"...I've been asked this a few times. Unfortunately with extroverted girls it seems to only make them more interested.
That's true it seems, but if you tell them "I don't want to talk to you." they respect you enough to just stare at you instead of babbling. Haha.
 

substitute

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This is all true. If I have no interest in getting to know a person past the point of initial conversation, then I cease to actually converse with this person or actively engage with them at any level. At parties/social gatherings of more than four or five people, this can make you look like a bit of a weirdo.

I don't totally cease to behave in a civil or polite manner, but I do distance myself and limit things to polite and civil, hold the warmth. I'm very extraverted, but I'm not a Feeler and I don't connect to people easily. I'm with you guys all the way when it comes to not wanting to invest unless I'm gonna get a return. I might have more energy for people generally, but emotional expression and reaching out to connect with people takes just as much energy for me, I reckon...

Like I say I stay civil and even friendly, but there's a definitely observable difference between the 'arms length' that I hold some people at and the 'free pass to the inside: layer one' I'm giving others...
 

INA

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That's true it seems, but if you tell them "I don't want to talk to you." they respect you enough to just stare at you instead of babbling. Haha.

You really tell people "I don't want to talk to you" in those words?
 
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