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  1. #121
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    *buries hatchet*

  2. #122
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    As long as your not burying it in my back Nihilen lol

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    As long as your not burying it in my back Nihilen lol
    That was not my intention.

    But with your grammar, I bet you're asking for it.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    gee thanks, and with your charm I bet you're the one who will answer

  5. #125
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    Not a matter of charm, only basic politeness.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    Aww thanks for the advice Bluemonday. You folks are truely lovely though and I remain optimistic that one day we will work it out lol
    Honestly, I think intimacy may be more of a problem for male INTPs than for females.
    I used to work with a guy that I've since come to realize was an INTP. Probably the first one I'd met since my best friend from childhood. Now this guy was a huge dork, completely brilliant but couldn't apply himself and so an underachiever. I wouldn't usually have given him the time of day, except that he turned out to be the most imaginatively funny person I have ever met. He made work fun for me, but I wasn't interested in anything beyond the good-humoured sparring that characterized our relationship. (Also he was really very effeminate and I thought he was probably gay but just not out.) There was no real intimacy between us, he hid his real self behind this clownish persona and didn't go in for self-revelation. Which was fine, but then he started telling everyone how crazy he was about me. He would follow me around and sigh and groan and ham it up like he was completely smitten. I just figured he was being an arse, or maybe overcompensating, but then a mutual friend indicated that he was serious and I should give him a chance.

    I didn't tend to socialise with people from work back then, but he kept asking me out until I eventually gave in - but only if it was a group do. Anyway, there was a kind of turning point for me one night when we were both a bit the worse for drink and I had paid for a cab to take us on to someone's house after the pub closed. He insisted that that he pay, I refused, eventually he grabbed hold of me from behind, took my hand in both of his and forced it open to put the money inside. This might sound strange but I found that incredibly erotic, even though, or perhaps because, there was no overt sexual overtone. It still makes me tingly just thinking about it....I guess you would have had to have been there...

    Anyway, I started to think, maybe this wouldn't be so bad... I made myself more available, I arranged things so that we could be alone, thinking things would just take their natural course. But although he would still be very flirtatious publicly, when we were alone he completely froze up on me, like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights. He seemed incapable of normal affection. This was very, very frustrating for me. I had to leave that job eventually because I just couldn't take the headgames.

    Anyway, this experience (amongst others), has led me to conclude me that introverted thinking men, while they can be great friends, do not make good partners, especially not for introverted women, it is just too much hard work, with too little payoff.

  7. #127
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    I see inter-type irritations in terms of the Inferior function. That is, at my stage in life (early-mid 50s), most people are good at engaging both their Dominant and Auxiliary. But if we're really going to get along, we have to connect with good Inferiors. Otherwise we're just connecting with each other briefly and superficially (which is fine for brief conversations, but not for much else), or we're rubbing each other the wrong way when stuck together for longer periods.

    For example, dealing with:

    Another INFP

    In a conversation with another INFP, we can get whimsical or imaginative or deep into intangibles using Fi (Dominant) and Ne (Auxiliary). But if we're going to get a little more personal than that, then we both need to have some decent Te. For example, an INFP with poor Te will never let you into their house--if you get in their house and comment on any little thing they'll assume that you're putting down their way of living and quickly get defensive. You have to stay away from personal/tangible details or they clam up and get sullen.

    I see that as immaturity. If they're doing something strange with their money management or furniture arrangements or upkeep of their house, naturally I'm going to ask. Maybe I'll even judge them as deficient in that area. But they don't need to freak out about it and get defensive. Not everyone's good at everything. Keep a cool head and explain that you don't have time for everything but you expect to get around to it soon. Lighten up. So you're not good at housekeeping. Most INFPs aren't. Put it on display and let the chips fall where they may.

    Use your Te to keep an even keel. Decide what you want to accomplish with the person you're with and stick to that plan instead of getting peeved over any little comment or question.

    INTPs

    Same thing with INTPs and their Fe. One inquiry too many, and they shut down. Or they get peevish and use stressed-out Fe to get all J and poke and prod at me and get me to back off.

    Most older INTPs are actually pretty good at Fe to some extent. They're perfectionists, and they're not totally oblivious to the fact that they have to get along with people. But it tends to be hit-and-miss. They're good for a while or good on certain subjects and can do as effective an Fe as an INFJ. But then they hit their limit or I touch on a sore spot, and they turn sullen or or get peevish and start going on the attack.

    Consistency, people! Figure out who you want to be (Fe-wise) and stick with it. Don't run hot and cold. Either be the nice guy or be the prick; but don't switch back and forth. I don't give a damn about your precious autonomy. I'm not trying to take it away from you; I just don't give a damn one way or the other. If you don't get all stressed about it, I won't either. If I'm pressing you to do something you don't want to do, just say pleasantly, "Well, that's not the way I usually do things, but I'm open to new ideas. Let me think about it at my leisure." There's a nice little formulation for this in the business world: "I'll take it under consideration." And then change the subject.

    A little focus goes a long way. Figure out a sustainable level of Fe, and then maintain it. Get over your fear of being "found out" and you may learn that you're not so very different from the rest of us anyway.


    ENTPs and ENFPs

    My Ne loves your Ne. But your Ne is Dominant and my Ne is Auxiliary. Sooner or later I burn out and start getting whiplash. Use your Inferior Si and settle on a subject and go into it in detail.

    You Ne-Doms both hate details. Details drive you nuts and leave you vulnerable to fact-checking and correction. So you prefer to wrench the conversation this way and that--that's when you feel you're at your strongest and most entertaining. But you burn me out that way. Frankly I like ENTPs and ENFPs best in the workplace where we have to sit down together on a project and bump heads over the details at a leisurely pace. The ENTPs and ENFPs freak out and start getting defensive when I prove better on the details (and I suck at details compared to practically any other type), but I tell them I don't care; I just want a second pair of eyes. If I can get them calmed down about that, they're good company on a project.

    If you're telling me about some recent incident in your life, then stop and focus and think about what actually happened. Don't just skim over the surface and figure "it's good enough for government work." Don't ramp up the details or change them around for effect. Because most likely I'm going to want to know more, and you're going to get caught out when you have to go into more detail. If that happens, don't get flustered and freak out and try to change the subject. Just stop, think for a second about exactly how things occurred, and say pleasantly, "Wait a minute, I gave you the quick version. If you want to know all the details, here's how it happened." Then go slow and round all the bases one by one.

    Also, pay attention to your surroundings and your listener. Do some detail-collecting, if only for practice. Put the spotlight on the other person and dig for the extended story. Slowing things down and asking questions doesn't create a commitment; it's just a courtesy. You're just J-ing down the pace of the interaction to make it more consistent and more leisurely, and to suit the person you're with instead of yourself.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Anyway, I started to think, maybe this wouldn't be so bad... I made myself more available, I arranged things so that we could be alone, thinking things would just take their natural course. But although he would still be very flirtatious publicly, when we were alone he completely froze up on me, like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights. He seemed incapable of normal affection. This was very, very frustrating for me. I had to leave that job eventually because I just couldn't take the headgames.

    Anyway, this experience (amongst others), has led me to conclude me that introverted thinking men, while they can be great friends, do not make good partners, especially not for introverted women, it is just too much hard work, with too little payoff.
    That isn't like some of us at all, I'll tell you that. The last time I was in a relatively similar situation, as in alone together for the first time, I said "You know I have to kiss you right now." I hadn't even been drinking.

  9. #129
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That isn't like some of us at all, I'll tell you that. The last time I was in a relatively similar situation, as in alone together for the first time, I said "You know I have to kiss you right now." I hadn't even been drinking.
    From your posts, you also seem to be further along maturity-wise, than the guy she was talking about.
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  10. #130
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I want intimacy very badly. I am afraid to take the initiative generally, in establishing intimacy. However, if someone I accept takes the initiative to form intimacy with me, then I don't fear it. I let it happen, because I want to happen.

    I don't fear intimacy. I fear making misplaced attempts to form it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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