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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think the use of Ne is more obvious in the intp as it is sometimes tried to be understood.

    If you take Jack for example in the forums. He claims to be Ti Ni
    Hey! That's not what I said! I said in socionics the INTp (Which I am, moreso than INTj) is "Ni dominant," and the case could be made for it, and that's a major reason I find functions to be as much garbage. They're malleable.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    J...I was invited yesterday to a birthday party on friday evening. My INFJ girlfriend now is pissed, because we wont see each other today on friday (what was not planned). She herself is invited to a birthday party on saturday, where she will go to and planned in my absence that I am going to see her on friday then.

    There are, as I said, different functions playing here, but it is a good example concerning Ni likes to bend reality.
    Please explain better why this is Ni in particular, rather than Si or just Pi in general at work, thanks.

    Or why it is Pi at all. (Ji could have reached the same conclusions through a judging process of what seemed to "make the most sense".)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Hey! That's not what I said! I said in socionics the INTp (Which I am, moreso than INTj) is "Ni dominant," and the case could be made for it, and that's a major reason I find functions to be as much garbage. They're malleable.
    Wow! You finally clarified something so that we could understand you better. Cool.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wow! You finally clarified something so that we could understand you better. Cool.
    No problem! Now make something interesting!

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    No problem! Now make something interesting!
    But I can't pedal any faster!
    Push harder!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Hey! That's not what I said! I said in socionics the INTp (Which I am, moreso than INTj) is "Ni dominant," and the case could be made for it, and that's a major reason I find functions to be as much garbage. They're malleable.
    Sorry, you are right, did not want to mix that up.

    Please explain better why this is Ni in particular, rather than Si or just Pi in general at work, thanks.

    Or why it is Pi at all. (Ji could have reached the same conclusions through a judging process of what seemed to "make the most sense".)
    It is not a very good example. What I wanted to tickle is the attitude that lies behind it. My gf took something for granted that was not validated. The outcome was a desaster. Now she is pissed and I could not have prevented that.

    It is an intresting attitude, if you watch it closely, you can easily identify Ni or Si persons. I do not want to go so bad about Introverted Perceivers now, I love them and I value their expertise on many things. But they have a distinct difference in dealing with information on a "what is real" and "what is imagination" basis and that comes due to their introverted nature of the function by factory design.

    So it is really no rant, it is more a perception.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    It is not a very good example.
    Oh dear.

    What I wanted to tickle is the attitude that lies behind it.
    I didn't know that tickling was part of MBTI methodology.

    *giggle*

    My gf took something for granted that was not validated. The outcome was a desaster. Now she is pissed and I could not have prevented that.
    True. But people of all MBTI types make assumptions all the time and are disappointed with other people. So no, it probably didn't clarify what you hoped.

    It is an intresting attitude, if you watch it closely, you can easily identify Ni or Si persons. I do not want to go so bad about Introverted Perceivers now, I love them and I value their expertise on many things.
    Especially with tickling! Wheeee!
    I will clarify before my next set of comments -- yes, I value Si/Ni people as well, a great deal.
    But I can still get some nasty headaches from them, depending on what we're discussing.

    But they have a distinct difference in dealing with information on a "what is real" and "what is imagination" basis and that comes due to their introverted nature of the function by factory design. So it is really no rant, it is more a perception.
    I have had enough dealings myself with Pi people. I still have found Ni's more flexible than Si's; Si's are more predictable, at least, so at least you can have a sense ahead of time what pitfalls might exist, but they can also be very very, uh, resilient in clinging to their inner construct of the world (or, in the classic example, their notion of what a "real chair should" look like).

    I just had a two-hour talk last night with a strong Si, and the differences were SO blatant and clear:

    Ti+Ne: Sees the insinuations and ramifications of external world, constructs the model of the world based on a full pool of the external evidence, spits out answer

    Si + Fe: Has an inner model of the world that is imposed on others through the Fe facility and is extremely resilient to change or correction, REGARDLESS of what happens externally. (in fact, external reality is instead modified to conform better with internal reality).

    It's very frustrating sometimes.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Ne is messed up Se. Instead of just perceiving the outer world, one looks for deeper less obvious patterns in the outer world.

    Ni is messed up Si. Instead of just taking in Data and then spitting it back out unchanged, data is taken in, morphed, and then spat out with a more profound understanding. I liken it to typing data into a spread sheet: when you save a Si file, the spreadsheet doesn't change. when you save a Ni file, the next time you open it, the data will be morphed just enough that you can find the patterns necessary to develope a master theory.

    Often I find that Ni and Ne manifest in the real world as:
    Ni: Grand theories from "no where".
    Ne: Finding connections among things that aren't obviously connected.


    Ni user spends all morning reading the paper and then watching CNN maybe...turns on the radio in the car etc... Then when they are sitting at the computer typing something--it hits them: this theory from nowhere. In reality their brain has spent all morning mulling over these economic issues, only to later suddenly spit out this changed data into this grand theory from nowhere.

    Ne user spends all morning reading the paper and then watching CNN...***same input as above***... then while at the computer starts reading through the sources again and starts noticing less than obvious patterns. These patterns lead to clues that can underly the *truth*.


    EDIT: The understanding of conscious vs subconscious is important. A lot of INTPs may identify with Ni the way I have described it. However, I think they are more guilty of using a conscious function, Ti, to arrive at those theories.

  8. #18
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    If you speak the word of God, BC, then I'm an extremely heavy Ni user. But I don't believe in the difference, so I say I'm a heavy N user.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    (INTPs are also notorious for asking for the definitions of terms and making clear the basic assumptions of an argument that could derail the conclusion.)
    Oh yes, tell me about it!



    Ni undermines assumptions.
    It says, "You can look at anything from an undefined number of angles and each one can still be right in its own way."

    Thus for Ni reality is determined not by a logical assess coming from established rules of truth but from one's personal choice of which paradigm (or "set of eyeglasses") through which to view the world at the time, based at best on the goal that needs to be accomplished.
    Yes indeed.

    I like to say that Ti operates on a more Dialetical level; meaning formal philosophical method of inquiry requiring question and answer; point and counter-point; thesis - antithesis - synthesis.

    Ni operates on a more Dialogical level; meaning inquiry with a more informal "consersational" method.

    I base this both upon personal experience, and by comparing the methods used by famous INTPs and INFJs. INTJs do it to, but oddly enough with more logic involved.

    I dunno, does any of this make sense?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    If you speak the word of God, BC, then I'm an extremely heavy Ni user. But I don't believe in the difference, so I say I'm a heavy N user.
    I think some INTPs might unfairly identify with:

    Ni is messed up Si. Instead of just taking in Data and then spitting it back out unchanged, data is taken in, morphed, and then spat out with a more profound understanding.
    however, the Ni user does this all subconsciously. The Ti Ne Si INTP, uses Ti, to consciously come to understanding.

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