[ENFP] INFJ and ENFP?

[hearthem]

My friend is an ENFP, and I'm an INFJ [although sometimes I have traits of an intj]. From what I've read, we're suppose to really get along, both being idealists and all...
She never admits her mistakes, she only laughs them off and tries to shove them onto me. And if she does, she'll act like 'Oh yes, I did that, have a problem?'
She usually doesn't treat me nicely, and if she does say something nice, it's usually perverted and disgusting. But the worst part is that she doesn't understand what's wrong with the way she acts. I try to explain it, but she just doesn't seem to understand what I'm saying...
Why is this such a problem if we're close in types? Sorry for ranting OTL
If it helps, I'm an 4w5 and she's a 6w7.

 

[hermeticdancer]

My friend is an ENFP, and I'm an INFJ [although sometimes I have traits of an intj]. From what I've read, we're suppose to really get along, both being idealists and all... but for some reason I really can't stand this friend!
She never admits her mistakes, she only laughs them off and tries to shove them onto me. And if she does, she'll act like 'Oh yes, I did that, have a problem?' And for some reason I can't take it! It makes me go crazy, I swear.
She doesn't ever treat me nicely, and if she does say something nice, it's usually perverted and disgusting. But the worst part is that she doesn't understand what's wrong with the way she acts. I try to explain it, but she just doesn't seem to understand what I'm saying! It makes me hate her even more.
Why is this such a problem if we're close in types? Sorry for ranting...
If it helps, I'm an 4w5 and she's a 6w3.

Excuse me sir, but I have to say, that you may as well just try to help yourself understand why, before trying to explain it to her first. Trying to help her out, and feeling like you are going crazy, and like a jerk in the process, and that you hate the person, doesn't sound too good to me here... I don't think you two are very alike, and trying to convince someone to be on your side, that you hated would be impossible, and could very well be a waste of time.

 

[Savage Idealist]

Just because certain typs are similar and therfore suppose to get along with each other doesn't mean they always do. The problem isn't so much her MBTI personality type, as it is just her unique personality. Hell, by the sound of your post, it hardly seems like you two are freinds at all, at least with the way she treats you. I would recommend trying to talk with her more, or asking another friend for advice.

 

[Lily flower]

I am an INFJ and have several ENFP friends. They are very enjoyable and a lot of fun. While your friend may be an ENFP, I think that she sounds like a very unhealthy version. I did have one ENFP friend once (who is no longer my friend). She was similar in that she put me down and took no personal responsibility for any of her own actions. In your case, I do not believe that your friend will ever change. People who don't take responsilbility for their own actions are rarely introspective enough to ever change. You are better off going out and finding new friends who lift you up, support you, and take responsibility for their actions.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

No type will definitely like everyone of a certain type, unless they're the type of person who can not see bad in anything at all, including being murdered or raped.

 

[Moiety]

An ENFP that doesn't take responsibility for anything, is a sad thing to witness.

Give her the cold shoulder. She probably thinks she is a princess of some sort.

 

[Arclight]

My friend is an ENFP, and I'm an INFJ [although sometimes I have traits of an intj]. From what I've read, we're suppose to really get along, both being idealists and all... but for some reason I really can't stand this friend!
She never admits her mistakes, she only laughs them off and tries to shove them onto me. And if she does, she'll act like 'Oh yes, I did that, have a problem?' And for some reason I can't take it! It makes me go crazy, I swear.
She doesn't ever treat me nicely, and if she does say something nice, it's usually perverted and disgusting. But the worst part is that she doesn't understand what's wrong with the way she acts. I try to explain it, but she just doesn't seem to understand what I'm saying! It makes me hate her even more.
Why is this such a problem if we're close in types? Sorry for ranting...
If it helps, I'm an 4w5 and she's a 6w3.

She never admits her mistakes, she only laughs them off and tries to shove them onto me. And if she does, she'll act like 'Oh yes, I did that, have a problem?'

I dated an INFJ for over a year and I swear I could write this line^^^^^^^^ about her.
So I don't think that is an ENFP trait as much as it's just something some people do.

Oh!!! and a 6w3 doesn't exist. Wings are called wings for a reason . The wing will be the type on each corresponding side. I.E. 6w5 or 6w7.
Just saying

 

[skylights]

ditto the above - her being ENFP doesn't make her any more likely to be nice than it does to make her be a jerk. and being an NF means that she'll probably have some similar large-scale goals and aspirations, but it doesn't always make you compatible in person, especially with ENFP and INFJ being on opposite ends of the NF spectrum. i'm sorry that she's mean to you, that sucks. have you tried to figure out why she's so crass?

that said, it may be that type differences are causing you to see sides of her that she has trouble seeing and maybe she feels the same way about you! Fe dom/aux in particular sometimes have problems with the way i handle things when i think i was completely reasonable, because i tend to be more laid back, and then reactionary once certain boundaries are crossed, instead of being more consistently controlling (not "controlling" in a negative way), like strong Fe users tend to be. she may seem especially reactionary and on/off if she is an e6.

i understand that this is a rant and you're just venting, and she does not sound like a particularly nice person, but i do have to agree with hermeticdancer in that hating her and trying to change her without trying to understand her is probably not a healthy strategy for either of you.

 

[hearthem]

Thank you for all the help everyone! I didn't think this would get that many responses OTL
Sorry for seeming like such a blathering fool, I guess my anger just got the best of me...
We're talking more about it and I think things are going to go a bit more smoothly.
*And thanks, she's an 6w7.
*I didn't mean to anger an ENFPs by the way! >m<

 

[Sniffles]

When INFJs and ENFPs get along - we get along very well. When they don't get along or see things eye to eye - things can get pretty ugly. I speak from experience.

BTW, interesting avatar. WWII?

 

[skylights]

*I didn't mean to anger an ENFPs by the way! >m<

suppose i can only really speak for myself, but ENFP anger in general seems rather short-lived. so no worries

you didn't seem like a blathering fool though, just frustrated. good luck dealing with her. :]

 

[Arclight]

Thank you for all the help everyone! I didn't think this would get that many responses OTL
Sorry for seeming like such a blathering fool, I guess my anger just got the best of me...
We're talking more about it and I think things are going to go a bit more smoothly.
*And thanks, she's an 6w7.
*I didn't mean to anger an ENFPs by the way! >m<

Hey!!! we are here to learn about ourselves and others.. can't do this if we don't ask questions sometimes.
You should see me go when I am angry.. that was wasn't too bad at all

 

[MrRandom]

Oh, don't get me started! I've had many ENFP dates now and they all have treated me like shit. Still, I've enjoyed their company and I've always had a desire to meet them again. However, in each case that proved to be impossible, because they always start fabricating reasons why they couldn't meet (white lies as long as I keep trying). What puzzles me is that they genuinely seem to enjoy my company a great deal, but as soon as I'm gone, they won't be looking back. No other type has ever treated me like this.

 

[the state i am in]

haha yeah. that is the most confusing aspect of e7s in general for us non-7s. was she an so dom (eg so/sx)? they usually chase after the scene more than privileging/prioritizing a specific connection, and doing the work to confront the fears that might emerge from such a focused prioritization (a lot more seems at stake). i don't know if this is really so relevant for 7w8 enfps tho. they seem more measured in general but more guided by the challenge itself rather than securing a position in any way shape or form in a group.

i think e7 types can get way out of control with focusing on novel experiences and newness and forward forward forward. it can work against them by helping them avoid create any hierarchies of meaning, instead just moving forward and not digesting anything fully. at the same time, as an e5 i let my knowledge and meaning hierarchies run my shit way too much, and so i often am trapped too much in the past and unwilling to open up and explore new things without a good bit of prefacing first.

it does seem like it requires such an amazing balancing act, these like trapeze arts. not only does it require both parties being open and exposed in their weakest areas/fears, it also requires similar investment to reinforce what draws the two parties together in the first place. you have to invest in the same cultural values, frames, meanings, etc in order to realize you want to be on the same page with each other and you want to work together and that these relationship can bring out a version of yourself that is one of the best yous you've been able to envision yet. and being able to handle your natural tendencies and see them on a bigger map that keeps you open and centered enough to know what is important to you in a broader sense than your struggle right now in the moment and resisting the natural tendencies that more or less fuck up your long-term for short-term coping (ie the 5w4 push/pull testing, the 7w6 running from something optimism, etc).

 

[Esoteric Wench]

haha yeah. that is the most confusing aspect of e7s in general for us non-7s. was she an so dom (eg so/sx)? they usually chase after the scene more than privileging/prioritizing a specific connection, and doing the work to confront the fears that might emerge from such a focused prioritization (a lot more seems at stake). i don't know if this is really so relevant for 7w8 enfps tho. they seem more measured in general but more guided by the challenge itself rather than securing a position in any way shape or form in a group.

i think e7 types can get way out of control with focusing on novel experiences and newness and forward forward forward. it can work against them by helping them avoid create any hierarchies of meaning, instead just moving forward and not digesting anything fully. at the same time, as an e5 i let my knowledge and meaning hierarchies run my shit way too much, and so i often am trapped too much in the past and unwilling to open up and explore new things without a good bit of prefacing first.

it does seem like it requires such an amazing balancing act, these like trapeze arts. not only does it require both parties being open and exposed in their weakest areas/fears, it also requires similar investment to reinforce what draws the two parties together in the first place. you have to invest in the same cultural values, frames, meanings, etc in order to realize you want to be on the same page with each other and you want to work together and that these relationship can bring out a version of yourself that is one of the best yous you've been able to envision yet. and being able to handle your natural tendencies and see them on a bigger map that keeps you open and centered enough to know what is important to you in a broader sense than your struggle right now in the moment and resisting the natural tendencies that more or less fuck up your long-term for short-term coping (ie the 5w4 push/pull testing, the 7w6 running from something optimism, etc).

Your posts always blow me away! I love this.

I look at my 20s and early 30s and I think that I might have completely missed the powerful magnetism of these connections. Why? I'm not sure. As an 7w8, I don't think I struggle too much with prioritizing my connections, but I will say that it took some life experience and maturity for me to "read" INFJs. I can become overly engrossed with taking in new information. This isn't quite the same as "having new experiences" in the way I'd expect an ESFP (with dominant Se) to do. So it's not new experiences per se... though these often come with new information... the real pay off is the new information that my Ne wants to process.

^^^^
I think this may be why INFJs can sometimes go under my ENFP 7w8 so radar, so to speak. It's because they are quiet and understated. It took some MBTI understanding and being able to type people on the fly. Now I pick up on them like a dog smelling cheese.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

When INFJs and ENFPs get along - we get along very well. When they don't get along or see things eye to eye - things can get pretty ugly. I speak from experience.

BTW, interesting avatar. WWII?

Yeah, I agree with Peguy on this one. When INFJs and ENFPs get along, it's very powerful and wonderful. But they can also (even within a good INFJ / ENFP relationship) have moments that they want to backhand each other. It seems to me that the very reason that these two types are drawn to one another is also the same reason that sometimes their differences come into focus and they can get very angry with each other. And, since neither type likes conflict, I think it's the INFJ's and ENFP's ability to constructively handle conflict that makes or breaks the relationship. Just my 10 cents.

Oh, and I thought hearthem's avatar was interesting as well.

 

[Moiety]

i think e7 types can get way out of control with focusing on novel experiences and newness and forward forward forward. it can work against them by helping them avoid create any hierarchies of meaning, instead just moving forward and not digesting anything fully

I think this is true.

 

[skylights]

However, in each case that proved to be impossible, because they always start fabricating reasons why they couldn't meet (white lies as long as I keep trying). What puzzles me is that they genuinely seem to enjoy my company a great deal, but as soon as I'm gone, they won't be looking back. No other type has ever treated me like this.

i think e7 types can get way out of control with focusing on novel experiences and newness and forward forward forward. it can work against them by helping them avoid create any hierarchies of meaning, instead just moving forward and not digesting anything fully.

this is true for me, too, and i don't think i'm a 7. i think it has a lot to do with Ne, too, and Ne and 7 often overlap - it's about the excitement of a beginning but the difficulty of being tied down. for me it's not that i don't enjoy someone else's company - i do, often very much - i just run from limitations like the plague. even an appointment with someone i really like, i can come to resent, if it restricts me from doing something else i'd like to do. it's a feeling i have to battle constantly. however, i'll schedule stuff with my parents, brother, best friend with no problem, because i know i'll enjoy my time with them. also on the bright side, once i'm with someone and doing something, i'm usually happy. i just have to overcome this fear of being boxed in first.

if an ENFP is giving you last-minute reasons why they can't meet, it could be a multi-purposed strategy, because it leaves all options completely open. it doesn't fully break off the relationship - it leaves possibility - and it theoretically shouldn't hurt you (because it's not you, it's the reason that's the "problem"), but it doesn't tie the ENFP down either, if they'd rather be doing something else - which, in Ne's case, we'd always like to be doing 5,000 things, so that's almost always true, even though it's nothing against you. it's not that you're not valued, it's a fear of losing possibilities. what if it goes poorly between us but i've built my life around you? it's dangerous, especially because once i fall for a person, i fall hard.

it's also strange, about leaving someone behind. in some ways i feel FREE. that said - personally, i stay really attached to one person for a very long time. so who knows. i just want what i can't have, which is both complete freedom and dedicated commitment to another person.

 

[prplchknz]

she sounds like a bitch tbh

 

[Quay]

From my own experience, stand up to the ENFP. You don't have to be nasty about it; being frank is enough. Let her know what's on your mind. They don't like being in the dark about things, especially as intuitives....