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  1. #21
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    So hmm, Jennifer you're saying:
    1. Allow others to define you,
    2. Elimate all outside influences, and define yourself,
    3. A mixture of the two, perhaps eliminating all outside influences that aren't close to you (family, friends)?
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  2. #22
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Which leads me to think that our core self is merely a basic set of tendencies. The rest is a giant mish-mash of everything and everyone we've ever encountered. Our beliefs, thoughts, mannerisms are all influenced by these experiences, but how we apply and integrate them is filtered through our tendencies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Trying to define the self are you? What makes you think there is a true self beneath the "chameleon facades" that many of us adapt into our lives?
    Hmm, but wouldn't you say, deep down, there are core values and a general belief of what is good and what is wrong?

    Indeed those are influenced by our parents, our culture, but,

    Still, when you listen to your heart, it tells you what is wrong and what is right, wouldn't this be considered the 'foundation of your personality'? The 'foundation of "me"'?
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    So hmm, Jennifer you're saying:
    1. Allow others to define you,
    2. Elimate all outside influences, and define yourself,
    3. A mixture of the two, perhaps eliminating all outside influences that aren't close to you (family, friends)?
    I guess that is what I said, isn't it?
    And with a lot more wasted energy on my part, too -- ick.

    Yeah, though -- either we abdicate our self-responsibility and let others dictate life to us, or we become extremely autonomous and make ourselves into whatever we want to be regardless of external influence, or we allow our life situation and important influences (our values and responsibilities) contribute to our choices but still make the decisions as to what we will and will not do... and not just for comfort or some other ulterior motive but because we believe in the choices we are making.

    The third seems to be the most active in that it is not a simplistic solution. It engages life fully.

    I agree with Kyrielle in that we do seem to be "tendencies" through which things are filtered. That's why it's hard to say "who we are" aside from our "tendencies" and so pinpoint things in clear-cut terms. We are both a product of our specific environement and life experience, yet also make fuzzy choices based on tendencies.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    When someone talks to you, or interacts with you any other way...
    1. You start to imitate their demeanor(ex: talk faster, copy accents..)
    2. Your mood immediately shifts to suit the visitor momentarily..
    3. You feel that their words are "penetrating?" and that you can't escape.
    4. You do your best to make them at "ease".
    But with all that accommodation, as soon as they leave you go on straight to your starting point, whatever that was.
    ^^Basically you develop over 15 facades a day that you shed one after the other and we could say that deep down, none of this has actually affected you in any way?You're pretty "hard and unshakable" in there.
    Sounds about right.

    I find, though, that those "facades" are really just lenses to view my identity, tailored to the interests of those I'm around. My goal is to find people in which those lenses have no prescription or tint...

    I'm completely dependent on them, though. It's as if I need to have them around to see myself. When I'm around a person, I find myself analyzing how they are taking each action I take/word I use. In doing that analysis, I can see myself. Otherwise, I just don't have access to the same kind of information.

    It's a similar thing to when I'm watching a movie that I've seen already. When I watch it alone, it's boring. But when I watch it with someone who hasn't seen it before, I find myself looking at the movie from their perspective, and all of my emotions get triggered again.

    @the bolded section: I don't think I'm unaffected (I don't think anyone could be unaffected). We just convince ourselves not to notice how overextended we feel. I honestly think the "chameleon" thing takes over -- I don't know who I am without others.

  5. #25
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    When someone talks to you, or interacts with you any other way...
    1. You start to imitate their demeanor(ex: talk faster, copy accents..)
    2. Your mood immediately shifts to suit the visitor momentarily..
    3. You feel that their words are "penetrating?" and that you can't escape.
    4. You do your best to make them at "ease".
    But with all that accommodation, as soon as they leave you go on straight to your starting point, whatever that was.
    ^^Basically you develop over 15 facades a day that you shed one after the other and we could say that deep down, none of this has actually affected you in any way?You're pretty "hard and unshakable" in there.
    1) sometimes, not accents though. i tend to imitate volume a lot. or if the guy tends to be "macho" i tend to be "macho" and so one, Neidnegal (<-- sp?) wrote a book about sports and mbti and he said that NFPs are the masters of imitation...might have some truth to it
    2) nope, not at all
    3) nope, once again, not at all
    4) Yes.

    I tend to bend my personality as i see fit but it never affects my mood. i could go from comforting someone who lost someone they loved to talking about cars within literally 10 seconds and it would have 0% effect on me. my friends actually know me for this attribute.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

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  6. #26
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
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    Fe just has more effects on NFJ than NFP
    "Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Trying to define the self are you? What makes you think there is a true self beneath the "chameleon facades" that many of us adapt into our lives? (I'm not trying to criticize you, I just want to know what you honestly think)

    I may still have some things that I can still relate to a younger self but depending on how you define the "self" I think I have changed myself quite a bit..
    Hm yeah maybe "true" wasn't a good word.Hm, to me something "true" is something that never changes, It's probably not the right term but that's how I saw it. I see that I still am the same kid I was when I was four, I don't feel changed one bit inside and I wonder if it's normal sometimes. Am I supposed to feel different?Mature or something because I sincerely don't...that's actually what scares me with myself: change me in anything you like but deep down I am as stiff as a rock..
    But now you just made me think, oh god there I go and confuse myself. I'll write something a bit later when my mind is not polluted by algebra and philosophy.(Hm Yes I'm having a bit of an identity crisis and rejecting or accepting everything ...It's funny because I was actually slightly thinking about that but didn't think it'd turn out that way. I just realized that what I'm doing => asking others for advice on how to "be" me, in itself is "doing the same problem".Goodness will this ever end?)
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

  8. #28
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I guess that is what I said, isn't it?
    And with a lot more wasted energy on my part, too -- ick.

    Yeah, though -- either we abdicate our self-responsibility and let others dictate life to us, or we become extremely autonomous and make ourselves into whatever we want to be regardless of external influence, or we allow our life situation and important influences (our values and responsibilities) contribute to our choices but still make the decisions as to what we will and will not do... and not just for comfort or some other ulterior motive but because we believe in the choices we are making.

    The third seems to be the most active in that it is not a simplistic solution. It engages life fully.

    I agree with Kyrielle in that we do seem to be "tendencies" through which things are filtered. That's why it's hard to say "who we are" aside from our "tendencies" and so pinpoint things in clear-cut terms. We are both a product of our specific environement and life experience, yet also make fuzzy choices based on tendencies.
    But we can't really say that that is all there is to us there has to be something else in my opinion.
    Don't you think there's something else?
    People who have been through the same experiences end up so different from each other. Maybe I'm just being overly teenage crisis"-ish here but I'd like to know for sure what was the other part. That part that isn't defined by experiences, environment etc, I don't think we "are" tendencies, I know people from similar backgrounds that are wildly different. I'm probably being annoying with all my questions but really, apart from all that is determined by the outside what isn't?What makes us who we are?
    We are individuals aren't we? We don't entirely depend on other people, environment and all that...I'm just confused. If I make no sense whatsoever please tell me so
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    Neidnegal (<-- sp?)
    np - intp
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    Goodness will this ever end?)
    No one doesn't know.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burkeus View Post
    np - intp

    No one doesn't know.
    I don't know, matter of fact I don't know a lot of things.
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

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