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  1. #61
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    ALSO----I think "Live and let live" actually does connote a philosophy of non-intervention in society at large.

    I wholeheartedly embrace the concept of "Live and let live"---which is quite different from "Get involved and change the world."

    I have high ideals but little desire to impose them on others--therefore, "Live and let live."
    Exactly, and that is my stance. And yes, I have little to no experience in all those things you've mentioned before. Which doesn't really matter because I'm already a proponent of the "jaded" approach to life. In a broader, social context anyways - I do have a clear idea of what I want and will fight for my personal dreams.

    In fact, I'd say all those things you mentioned...yeah I like to just ignore the naysayers. If I ever have to give up on or change my dreams, it will be because that was my life's natural progression and not because I took heed of inherently subjective third party advice.


    That being said I do always like to hear the stories of older ENFPs. I'm 22 btw.

  2. #62
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    The confusion is probably caused by the wildly innacurate stereotype of ENFPs as hyperactive party people.

    That, and all the ENTPs and ESFPs out there who mistype themselves/claim to be ENFPs.
    So true.

    I try to convince people (who know better) that I'm ESFP. Sad me. Sounds like life would be so much easier. Of course my sister's life isn't easier, just different struggles.

  3. #63
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    In fact, I'd say all those things you mentioned...yeah I like to just ignore the naysayers. If I ever have to give up on or change my dreams, it will be because that was my life's natural progression and not because I took heed of inherently subjective third party advice.
    Yeah, that's important for an ENFP, I think----to know that if you change the way you do things, that it was totally voluntary, and based on new knowledge or experience, and a shifting of priorities rather than a betrayal of values.

    That's why the best advice I can give to people who know and/or love an ENFP is to just respect their right to figure things out on their own---To offer helpful information, but not directives.

    ENFPs learn by directly experiencing things and then processing their experiences, adding them to an ever-growing "Big Picture" about how life works.

    They are open to all kinds of information, and will actively seek multiple perspectives on things and see how they can incorporate them into their way of doing things.

    In a way--ENFPs are perspective-junkies, often seeking out the most possible ways of seeing things, so as to have the maximum options to choose from.

    On the other hand, any attempt to force an ENFP to change will result in disaster, as the ENFPs are ultimately determined to do things their own way---and will resent any attempt to stop them.

    Because ENFPs are so determined to figure things out on their own, the outside observer can sometimes only see chaos and recklessness, but ENFPs generally know what they're doing.

    Their passionate belief in personal freedom is buffered by strong sense of fairness, altruism, and ethics, so they are not as unreliable or unpredictable as they may seem.

    Their tendency to expose themselves to potentially dangerous people and situations is buffered by a strong intuition and self-preservation or survival instinct, so they are not as reckless or helpless as they may appear to be.

    My point is that ENFPs feel that they MUST figure things out on their own, and MUST do what they personally believe is right, regardless of what others think, and that people can only really influence an ENFP with an INFORMATIVE, rather than DIRECTIVE approach.

    I hope all the non-ENFPs are taking notes.

  4. #64
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    very cool posts wonka and sy..i love it. totally true.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #65
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    perhaps personality type determines what type of soul level you are at, and maybe NF's are near the higher end.

  6. #66
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Yeah, that's important for an ENFP, I think----to know that if you change the way you do things, that it was totally voluntary, and based on new knowledge or experience, and a shifting of priorities rather than a betrayal of values.

    That's why the best advice I can give to people who know and/or love an ENFP is to just respect their right to figure things out on their own---To offer helpful information, but not directives.

    ENFPs learn by directly experiencing things and then processing their experiences, adding them to an ever-growing "Big Picture" about how life works.

    They are open to all kinds of information, and will actively seek multiple perspectives on things and see how they can incorporate them into their way of doing things.

    In a way--ENFPs are perspective-junkies, often seeking out the most possible ways of seeing things, so as to have the maximum options to choose from.

    On the other hand, any attempt to force an ENFP to change will result in disaster, as the ENFPs are ultimately determined to do things their own way---and will resent any attempt to stop them.

    Because ENFPs are so determined to figure things out on their own, the outside observer can sometimes only see chaos and recklessness, but ENFPs generally know what they're doing.

    Their passionate belief in personal freedom is buffered by strong sense of fairness, altruism, and ethics, so they are not as unreliable or unpredictable as they may seem.

    Their tendency to expose themselves to potentially dangerous people and situations is buffered by a strong intuition and self-preservation or survival instinct, so they are not as reckless or helpless as they may appear to be.

    My point is that ENFPs feel that they MUST figure things out on their own, and MUST do what they personally believe is right, regardless of what others think, and that people can only really influence an ENFP with an INFORMATIVE, rather than DIRECTIVE approach.

    I hope all the non-ENFPs are taking notes.
    In practice I won't disagree with any of this. 'Cept for the dumb part about directives: if I can't direct, I can't speak.

    Thus, the bit that doesn't quite fit with the libertarian cra-, um, philosophy: when the ENFP wants to take part in something.

    They might end up directed.



    I wonder if that's a big or a small quibble with the overall point. Can't tell. I'm just defending my preference to sometimes tell people what to do.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    That being said I do always like to hear the stories of older ENFPs. I'm 22 btw.
    Just turned 25, so.. not that much older. But some quick thoughts..

    I constantly get told that I seem older than I actually am. I think part of it comes from my tendency to want to mentor most everyone in some capacity, which makes me seem wise. Really, it's just a drive to connect with and help other people.

    I've also noticed that fully tapping into Ne involves taking advantage of life's coincidences, finding valuable and positive reasons for past suffering, and making connections between your (or another person's) past experiences and present situations which allows one to deal with seemingly new experiences relatively quickly.

    If one gets past the immature "slacker/procrastinator" parts of the P attitude, those traits are very valuable assets that can make one seem old inside, especially when combined with a drive to understand oneself and to help other people.

  8. #68
    Junior Member nameBRAND's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Yeah, that's important for an ENFP, I think----to know that if you change the way you do things, that it was totally voluntary, and based on new knowledge or experience, and a shifting of priorities rather than a betrayal of values.

    That's why the best advice I can give to people who know and/or love an ENFP is to just respect their right to figure things out on their own---To offer helpful information, but not directives.

    ENFPs learn by directly experiencing things and then processing their experiences, adding them to an ever-growing "Big Picture" about how life works.

    They are open to all kinds of information, and will actively seek multiple perspectives on things and see how they can incorporate them into their way of doing things.

    In a way--ENFPs are perspective-junkies, often seeking out the most possible ways of seeing things, so as to have the maximum options to choose from.

    On the other hand, any attempt to force an ENFP to change will result in disaster, as the ENFPs are ultimately determined to do things their own way---and will resent any attempt to stop them.

    Because ENFPs are so determined to figure things out on their own, the outside observer can sometimes only see chaos and recklessness, but ENFPs generally know what they're doing.

    Their passionate belief in personal freedom is buffered by strong sense of fairness, altruism, and ethics, so they are not as unreliable or unpredictable as they may seem.

    Their tendency to expose themselves to potentially dangerous people and situations is buffered by a strong intuition and self-preservation or survival instinct, so they are not as reckless or helpless as they may appear to be.

    My point is that ENFPs feel that they MUST figure things out on their own, and MUST do what they personally believe is right, regardless of what others think, and that people can only really influence an ENFP with an INFORMATIVE, rather than DIRECTIVE approach.

    I hope all the non-ENFPs are taking notes.
    Although I'm not the person this post was directed, I had a great appreciation for it.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    So I just read the link to the mature soul, and I must say I related with it FAR more than with the Old Soul descriptions. [Note: just because I relate to something, or don't, does not mean that I do, or do not, believe it.]

    Do people here think that ENFP's are usually old souls, and also that INFP's are usually mature souls? Personally, I'd expect the reverse of that. IME, and maybe this is just the ENFP's I've met, I think ENFP's have nothing on INFP's when it comes to soul-searching. More well-put, I think ENFP's skim the surface but talk about it more, while INFP's are generally deeper in their contemplations but don't usually feel a need to talk about it. Many times I've chewed something over, brought it up with an ENF, and heard them say "I don't want to think about that", "that's too deep for me", or "I don't want to know that about myself".

    Also, any thought's on how _NTP's usually fit into this. ENTP's are perspective junkies too, right.

    My idea of an ENFP contemplating life is someone at a coffee shop telling their friends, "OMG, you won't believe what I was thinking about yesterday, what if we are all connected by some like mysterious power, kinda like the Force in Star Wars, except cooler and crazier and...."
    whereas, for contrast, my idea of an INFP contemplating life is sitting on one's bed thinking, or reading through some thick deep religious/philosophical/spiritual tome. For example, have I mentioned lately how many of the Upanishad's I've read, or how much of the Zen/Chan canon, or the Daoist canon, or of Tibetan Buddhism, or....And I don't go to coffee shops. But several ENFP's I've met do, but as far as I know never read anything more than, say, zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, or the Tao of pooh. Nothing against those books, but simply put they are not the Ashtavakra Gita, or The Diamond Sutra, or the Bodhisattvacatarya, or....

    Again, I am not trying to put down ENFP's. I love you all, your a lot like us [INFP's], except that you like actually talk [obviously we talk too, but probably not nearly as much] and have an impact on people [well, we do too, but on a lot less people I think]. Obviously there are other differences as well, but my overall point there is that ENFP's are sorta like socially effective version of INFP's if INFP's talked more and stuff.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quoting from the mature soul link: " Old souls, on the other hand, have pretty much given up on the world in a material sense,"

    and from the old soul page of the above link:
    "there is often a tiredness about them that prevents much expenditure of effort. They are quieter than younger people,..., and are more subdued in their manner of expression. They have mellowed out considerably compared to their younger days. The energy and excitement of youth is mostly gone."

    Nothing about that says to me E_FP, or Ne dom. Aren't ENFP's usually considered kinda sparkly and enthusiastic and energetic? Isn't everything supposed to be new and interesting from a Ne Dom perspective? Okay, "everything" is probably stretching it, but the point remains "Ooh, we could do this..." and "Oh how neat, check out this new way of doing..." are the opposite in my mind of "I've given up on the world"

    Does the old soul description sound more like a description of an older, and say crankier, ISTJ? "Bah humbug, you kids these days..." or something like that.

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