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  1. #51
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    W: Perhaps some of the ENFP's I've met were just extreme E's and that's throwing my perspective, but I think of ENFP's as often being quite social and very interactive with others. None of the ENFPs I've met were hyperactive partiers as far as I know, but several of them seemed very social and constantly going somewhere to hang out wit yet another friend of theirs. Hyperactive partyers no, but constantly socially active social creatures I definitely saw that.
    A man after my own heart. (spelling )

    Its like swimming in the ocean. I dive way, way deep into Ne land, make endless connections, thoughts, ideas, then have to go explode as I have been bundled up with myself too long and be a spastic Se powered door-to-door butterfly for a little bit. Then I can regroup, refocus, and dive deep.

    Also in the midst of deep diving I can sputter up utter silliness and then giggles, but still be very thoughtful and "on track". Like knitting, while swimming I can tie my brain into somebody elses. (WTF???)

    I actually like to go home and be alone to recharge myself. I like people but too much social activity makes me tired. So by the typical descriptions of I vs E, I just dont fit well. Yet I am an E for sure.

  2. #52
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank
    I guess I'm more interested in the why factor. Where do they claim, if they do, that they received this knowledge from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver
    Let me ask a question that seems to be troubling me here: given the description of an old soul from page one [which personally I see and kinda agree with, but would then differentiate between old souls and spiritually powerful souls, though potentially one could be both I guess...]: would we not expect such behavior more from I's and from INF's than from ENFP's?????? Aren't ENFPs amongst the most all over the place of the types? Hardly an efficiency-focused, minimal distraction, just meeting the minimum social prerequisites approach as described by that info on page 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver
    W: Perhaps some of the ENFP's I've met were just extreme E's and that's throwing my perspective, but I think of ENFP's as often being quite social and very interactive with others. None of the ENFPs I've met were hyperactive partiers as far as I know, but several of them seemed very social and constantly going somewhere to hang out wit yet another friend of theirs. Hyperactive partyers no, but constantly socially active social creatures I definitely saw that.
    I think I can answer all of these questions by simply saying ENFPs are driven most of all by a quest for wisdom-----for insight, knowledge and understanding of the whole cosmic picture--and because they are EXTRAVERTS, they do this primarily through social interaction.

    So, if ENFPs are generally "Old Souls"---and I believe they are----the wisdom they've acquired is simply due to a constant seeking of wisdom----and I can't emphasize enough that ENFPs seek this wisdom through social interaction.

    ENFPs see life as a series of lessons, and interactions with people as opportunities to gain wisdom---a deeper understanding of what this life is all about.

    If you've ever interacted with an ENFP, you may have noticed a really strong desire from them to know all about you---what you know, what you believe, your life experiences, any wisdom you may have gained, etc.

    This is because ENFPs are CONSTANTLY probing for wisdom, and believe that everyone has some kind of wisdom to offer.

    ENFPs are very spiritual and soulful, but they are NOT monastic or ascetic in their approach to spiritual things.
    They do not see a contradiction between being a wholehearted love of life and a wholehearted devotion to spiritual things.

    Many people think sage-like wisdom comes from an ascetic withdrawal from the world and people and the pleasures of living.

    ENFPs take an entirely different approach.

    ENFPs seek understanding of people, life, the world, the entire cosmos, by ENGAGING in it----by soaking up as many different experiences as possible.

    This, of course, uses up a lot of physical energy as well as mental energy, but ENFPs are TIRELESS in their pursuit of gaining WISDOM THROUGH EXPERIENCE.

    They often forget about physical needs like food and sleep because they are so hell-bent on gleaning understanding from the widest variety of experiences as possible.

    So, any time you see an ENFP engaging in social activity, regardless of how superficial it might SEEM, they are probably seeking some kind deep understanding and wisdom.

    And by living almost constantly in this wisdom-seeking mode, coupled with the abundance of actual energy expended in activity---ENFPs feel like they have lived multiple lives in the course of their actual life.

  3. #53
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    that's so true wonka! what an interesting and funny perspective! that's why we have such an odd assortment of friends and gravitate towards people that know lots of interesting things. they're like lil walking libraries but with entertaining personalities or something....we're like ooohh...fascinating creature! what do you know...tell us everything..haha!

    i love that...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #54
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott N Denver View Post
    ....given the description of an old soul from page one [which personally I see and kinda agree with, but would then differentiate between old souls and spiritually powerful souls, though potentially one could be both I guess...]: would we not expect such behavior more from I's and from INF's than from ENFP's??????
    I suspect INFPs are more aptly described as "Mature Souls" than as "Old Souls".

    If you'd like to see a comparison chart, you can check out this link: Mature Soul - Old Soul Comparison Chart

    Also, here is link to a description of a "Mature Soul": Mature Soul | Michael Teachings

    EDIT: By the way, I do not necessarily endorse this michaelteachings.com website or its philosophy, i just came across this when i Googled "Old Soul". Frankly, there's some fairly creepy cult-like aspects of this stuff I don't want to be associated with.

  5. #55
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    From the site above: "It is not better to be an old soul than to be mature or young, just as it isnt better to be forty-five years old than it is to be thirty-two or fourteen. A young person may be wise, and an old person foolish. A baby soul may be loving, and an old soul spiteful...It is ironic that in our society, most people want to be physically young, but those who learn of the Michael teachings often want to be old souls. Part of the reason for this is confusion over the term old soul. In common new age parlance, saying that someone is an old soul is a compliment; it implies depth and innate knowledge. However, in the Michael teachings, it simply refers to a particular stage in our developmental process."

    This does not sound especially ENFP to me: "...it is rare for an Old soul to make a great contribution to society or culture. The reason for this is that they have largely given up on the world. "

  6. #56
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    From the site above: "It is not better to be an old soul than to be mature or young, just as it isnt better to be forty-five years old than it is to be thirty-two or fourteen. A young person may be wise, and an old person foolish. A baby soul may be loving, and an old soul spiteful...It is ironic that in our society, most people want to be physically young, but those who learn of the Michael teachings often want to be old souls. Part of the reason for this is confusion over the term old soul. In common new age parlance, saying that someone is an old soul is a compliment; it implies depth and innate knowledge. However, in the Michael teachings, it simply refers to a particular stage in our developmental process."

    This does not sound especially ENFP to me: "...it is rare for an Old soul to make a great contribution to society or culture. The reason for this is that they have largely given up on the world. "
    I just wrote an epic-length response to this, but I lost it when I tried to post it.

    In a nutshell, ENFPs fight constantly to maintain personal integrity, in accordance with their own deeply felt personal values.

    In order to have great impact on society, one has to get really enmeshed into its institutions, political factions, clubs, clicques, and other groups that the highly individualistic ENFP has no interest in.

    ENFPs tend to have great people skills and know how to network, but they don't want to have to be phoney or "play the game."

    So, although ENFPs are potentially excellent catalysts for positive change in society, they often avoid the spotlight because they are ultimately hardcore individualists who prefer doing things on their own terms.

    ENFPs could change the world, but the world would have to want the ENFPs particulary brand of change, and the world generally doesn't want it.

    More often, the world recognizes the natural talents and potential of ENFPs and wants to groom them into a more "mainstream" or acceptable version, by "repackaging them or "selling" them as something they are not.

    ENFPs can seem to be "star material" until people realize they are not actually "team players."

    Then people try one of two approaches:

    Either they write off the ENFP as difficult, fickle, stubborn, lazy, or lacking in ambition---and give up on the ENFP,

    OR they try with all their might to convince the ENFP to give up some of their deeply held personal values and "play the game a little".

    Both approaches are extremely misguided and turn off the ENFP like nothing else.

    In fact, ENFPs are easy-going about almost everything---even things that violently upset most people-----EXCEPT the pressure to compromise their personal integrity.

    The ENFP would be more than happy to contribute to society, but rarely does anyone accept the ENFP on her/his own terms, and that is why ENFPs have "largely given up on the world."

  7. #57
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I agree with everything you said Wonka except maybe the last sentence.

    I haven't given up on the world because I've always thought this way. It's "live and let live", strive to be happy and help when you can., for me.

  8. #58
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I agree with everything you said Wonka except maybe the last sentence.

    I haven't given up on the world because I've always thought this way. It's "live and let live", strive to be happy and help when you can., for me.
    Well, I think "largely given up on the world" essentially means "for the most part, given up on the world."

    It doesn't mean "completely given up on the world."

    Also, it may depend on the age and experience of the ENFP.

    How old are you? Have you had many long-term relationships?

    Have you worked for a significant number of years?

    And are you married? Have kids?

    I think these are important factors in whether an ENFP has "largely given up on the world" or not.

  9. #59
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg
    I haven't given up on the world because I've always thought this way. It's "live and let live", strive to be happy and help when you can., for me.
    ALSO----I think "Live and let live" actually does connote a philosophy of non-intervention in society at large.

    I wholeheartedly embrace the concept of "Live and let live"---which is quite different from "Get involved and change the world."

    I have high ideals but little desire to impose them on others--therefore, "Live and let live."

    I guess it depends on how you look at it.

  10. #60
    Senior Member thinkinjazz's Avatar
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    I think ENFP's are actually great at team play, but we need to work with an S or a T- somebody who doesn't mind being bossed around to do all the little chores that we hate to do.
    The problem with ENFP's is that we just get bored very easily- even with people- don't like listening in class- love teaching- can't teach without first learning, which is usually in class- ENFPeas in a nutshell I think

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