[INFJ] Why are INFJs so Manipulative?

[StarFollowed]

Maybe I've just met really unhealthy INFJs, which is a shame, but there is an INFJ I know who always tries to manipulate others and make himself seem like the "good guy" and throws himself a pity party/tries to gain the sympathy of others. He doesn't seem very genuine or honest, and I feel like he's always trying to blame others/something for saying things that don't make sense/changing stories.

Why?!

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

^This describes a great many people in the world. I've seen a variety of types do this very thing. I know an ENTJ lady who has a personality disorder and she is extremely successful in generating pity in others to obtain financial and other gains - she even manages to get 50K a year in charitable benefits without working a single minute of her life. I also knew an INTP who was absolutely brilliant with this form of manipulation. I could go on with listing a variety of types who specifically instill pity to manipulate and get benefits from others, and who place blame on others instead of taking responsibility, etc. Those qualities are almost stock psychological problems for humanity. Counselors spend a lot of their life untangling the results of those behaviors in their clients and in the people their clients are scarred by.

What are some neutral qualities about this person that make you think they are INFJ specifically?

 

[1487610420]

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Here are some articles dealing with the issues you describe, but they are happening far more often than 1% of the population, and so it is not specifically correlated with INFJ. I think it can be destructive to correlate known psychological conditions to a specific MBTI type, because it is not a fair correlation for the individuals who do not display these qualities. Of course there are manipulative INFJs, but there are also some who are not manipulative at all. To instill these social assumptions should be re-thought. It is an important issue to understand in the broader sense of humanity.

These are some articles to help start understanding the dynamics of manipulation, so I hope this will be helpful for you.

link

Perhaps no behavior which disordered characters are prone to displaying is more common than their tendency to blame others when they do something wrong.

link

Codependents have trouble being direct and assertive and may use manipulation to get their way. They’re also easy prey for being manipulated by narcissists, borderline personalities, sociopaths, and other codependents, including addicts.

Favorite weapons of manipulators are: guilt, complaining, comparing, lying, denying (including excuses and rationalizations), feigning ignorance, or innocence (the “Who me?” defense), blame, bribery, undermining, mind games, assumptions, “foot-in-the-door,” reversals, emotional blackmail, evasiveness, forgetting, fake concern, sympathy, apologies, flattery, and gifts and favors. Manipulators often use guilt by saying directly or through implication, “After all I’ve done or you,” or chronically behaving needy and a helpless. They may compare you negatively to someone else or rally imaginary allies to their cause, saying that, “Everyone” or “Even so and so thinks xyz” or “says xyz about you.”

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

These are some links to linguistic framing and how it is used for manipulation. We are all inundated with it via the media and politics, but people also apply it in personal scenarios.

link

Every word comes with one or more frames. Most frames are unconscious and have just developed naturally and haphazardly and have come into the public’s mind through common use.

Advertisers use this to adjoin two frames to get their intended result. Framing cigarrette smoking with the cowboy image of the Marbolo man creates a subconsious connection between smoking and freedom to live your life as you see fit. The associated meaning of "freedom" with "cowboy" then becomes the associated meaning of "freedom" with "cigarrette".

The basic idea is that one cannot understand the meaning of a single word without access to all the essential knowledge that relates to that word. For example, one would not be able to understand the word "sell" without knowing anything about the situation of commercial transfer, which also involves, among other things, a seller, a buyer, goods, money, the relation between the money and the goods, the relations between the seller and the goods and the money, the relation between the buyer and the goods and the money and so on.

Thus, a word activates, or evokes, a frame of semantic knowledge relating to the specific concept it refers to (or highlights, in frame semantic terminology).

This is used for manipulation when the associated meaning of one word is desired to be conveyed to the associated meaning of another word. In the example of this thread the word "INFJ" contains certain associated meanings and the word "Manipulative" contains another set of associated meanings. By framing these two words together, the subconscious result is to combine the extended meanings of both words. In this way, people come to associate the word "INFJ" with "Manipulation", and ironcially enough, it is one of the more sly and effective means of manipulation.

 

[Littleclaypot]

Oh, my! .. I am an INFJ and know many of them and I haven't seen this behavior before. Maybe they're suffering from mental illness or some sort.

 

[HisKittyKat]

Fe. The closer Fe is to leading function the more it appears to be manipulating. Fi has always been stereotyped as selfish , Fe will always be stereotyped as the manipulation function. Extroverted feelers beleive people should see everything their way, especially on an emotional level. When Fe is rejected or they can't get X to conform, they will use manipulation through guilt/shame. This has been my personal experiences with Fe and manipulation. Fi won't generally play along however other Fe users are easily manipulated by other Fe users.

 

[Starry]

Maybe I've just met really unhealthy INFJs, which is a shame, but there is an INFJ I know who always tries to manipulate others and make himself seem like the "good guy" and throws himself a pity party/tries to gain the sympathy of others. He doesn't seem very genuine or honest, and I feel like he's always trying to blame others/something for saying things that don't make sense/changing stories.

Why?!

Do you think this individual has a conscious awareness of his behavior and what he is doing? I find we as a collective often blame individuals that do what you describe as acting with purpose/awareness when most often that is not the case. It is rare that I encounter someone that is truly manipulative...and when I do it is real scary to me. Obviously I do not know but merely based on what is more common of the two...I would imagine this individual is actually experiencing his reality in this way and is truly hurting. In other words...his pain impairs his judgment and bends his experience into this shape. By his experience he is making an accurate account of what has occurred.

 

[EcK]

It's because they're evil of course.

 

[Forever]

It's because they're evil of course.

Duh.

And OP, it's because we can.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

The most manipulative person I have ever met is a ENTP. He is an expert at playing others like fiddle, getting them to dance to his tune, without moral or ethical qualms. I have also met ectremely manipulative ESFP, ESTP, ISFP, ESFJ, ISFJ, ENFP, INFP, etc.

The second most manipulative person I know, the one who uses nasty guilt trips and emotional pulls is a ISTJ. He would never admit to manipulating anyone and likely isn't conscious of his behavior.

And OP, it most likely isn't the correct type. Most alleged to be INFJs are not.

 

[Starry]

Fe. The closer Fe is to leading function the more it appears to be manipulating. Fi has always been stereotyped as selfish , Fe will always be stereotyped as the manipulation function. Extroverted feelers beleive people should see everything their way, especially on an emotional level. When Fe is rejected or they can't get X to conform, they will use manipulation through guilt/shame. This has been my personal experiences with Fe and manipulation. Fi won't generally play along however other Fe users are easily manipulated by other Fe users.

Honestly...one of the most manipulative individuals I've encountered anywhere...online or irl...is a clear Fi user. This individual is in it for the attention and the enjoyment of harming others/enjoyment of *the game* of lying and manipulation...and will even admit this to their victims...or at least has...once they are done playing with them. It's so fucking sick. How do you protect others from this kind of thing? There's not much you can do really.

 

[ceecee]

Honestly...one of the most manipulative individuals I've encountered anywhere...online or irl...is a clear Fi user. This individual is in it for the attention and the enjoyment of harming others/enjoyment of *the game* of lying and manipulation...and will even admit this to their victims...or at least has...once they are done playing with them. It's so fucking sick. How do you protect others from this kind of thing? There's not much you can do really.

I can agree with this coughISFPcough. While all types can be manipulative, in my experience, this person was head and shoulders above even the worst Fe user. The only way to get people away from them is through persuasion, which can appear to be another type of manipulation. So it really is impossible most of the time.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The most manipulative person I have ever met is a ENTP. He is an expert at playing others like fiddle, getting them to dance to his tune, without moral or ethical qualms. I have also met ectremely manipulative ESFP, ESTP, ISFP, ESFJ, ISFJ, ENFP, INFP, etc.

The second most manipulative person I know, the one who uses nasty guilt trips and emotional pulls is a ISTJ. He would never admit to manipulating anyone and likely isn't conscious of his behavior.

And OP, it most likely isn't the correct type. Most alleged to be INFJs are not.

I do think every type can be manipulative, and I have seen some Fe manipulation, but it doesn't bother me that much because I'm rather impervious to it. The only function type that really manipulated me line hook and sinker was a Ti-Ne. Ne can be brilliant at manipulation and for me it is tricky when combined with Ti because it feels so objective and true, but it is much like the distortions of an M.C. Escher painting.

I can see when Ne combines with Fi to manipulate and I avoid the people who do it because it is quite a head-trip I don't want to get dragged into. I can usually see what they are doing though.

Fe manipulation is like when a colleague of mine brought a cake to work and kept pressuring me in front of many people to have a piece. I stuck by my intention to say 'no', and it made me look very bad in front of everyone, but it's my body and I didn't want the extra sugar calories at the end of the day. That's a good example though of how it's like water off a duck's back for me because I don't care that the people in the lobby thought I was rude. I'm comfortable with it and I was nice enough for my own standards.

The Ti-Ne manipulator got into my head and screwed with my perceptions, and proved very damaging to me internally, so that one did bother me alot, but I can always say 'no' to cake and look absurd.

Edit: On further thought I should add that Fe manipulation can definitely be more complex than the forced cake incident. It knows how to appeal to socially normative opinions, so it might attack someone unpopular to become buddies with others who dislike the same person. It can use flattery to gain approval of someone perceived as socially powerful. It can use shaming and guilt. My main point in this thread is that it is not right to identify as entire MBTI personality type as being fundamentally manipulative. Framing disorder and personality category to create negative, shared social assumptions is also a form of manipulation.

 

[Dreamer]

Anyone that truly understands human emotion and its depths can use it to alter anyone else. INFJs can often have a natural aptitude for this innate understanding. Now, anyone really CAN be manipulative regardless of type, and certain personalities will also be more clumsy in their attempts, but really, anyone going through struggles in their life, can manipulate others, and anyone going through struggles in their life, can be manipulated by others. Who, in this case is the manipulator? My stance is, the emotions of people are off limits, and anyone that dares to control the emotions of others is absolutely repulsive to me and deserves no respect nor compassion from me.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

As a Fe aux as well, I was manipulative when younger but now I'm not. Sometimes I still have a lot of suspicion toward myself however. I generally prefer to be blunt with others. It's the perfect mix of not mushy and not messy when done correctly. So it was a matter of immaturity. Which is obviously always something to keep in mind completely independent of actual age. I think the external and emotionally based nature of Fe in particular can manifest in this way, especially in such a state. It's the way of Fe to attempt influence. However subtle some of us may be about it.

The most manipulative person I know is an ESTP. Being around her is like internalizing the sound of nails against a chalkboard. It's unbearable.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Honestly...one of the most manipulative individuals I've encountered anywhere...online or irl...is a clear Fi user. This individual is in it for the attention and the enjoyment of harming others/enjoyment of *the game* of lying and manipulation...and will even admit this to their victims...or at least has...once they are done playing with them. It's so fucking sick. How do you protect others from this kind of thing? There's not much you can do really.

I can agree with this coughISFPcough. While all types can be manipulative, in my experience, this person was head and shoulders above even the worst Fe user. The only way to get people away from them is through persuasion, which can appear to be another type of manipulation. So it really is impossible most of the time.

Does this involve romantic or familial involvement? I've had close friends online, but I can't imagine what a person could online could accomplish anything as horrific as you all are describing - unless they became a stalker or something. I've had an online friend try to manipulate a lot of money out of me in the distant past, but I don't think them horrific for it. It was definitely mercenary, but not "fucking sick". I save the term "fucking sick" for people who manipulate others into accepting physical harm from them and other forms of violation that can actually destroy another human being. I've dealt with multiple people like that. The number of people playing emotional games online even to cause a negative emotional reaction goes far beyond what any of us could easily count. Most everyone says something cruel or just harsh to feel right, powerful, superior, for attention, a winner, etc. I've seen the majority of posters do that. The amount of manipulation that goes on during discussion is persistent and widespread - normative even. It's the exception not the rule that someone is really true.

 

[highlander]

The most manipulative person I've known was an ENTP. I do think less healthy people tend to do this.

 

[Starry]

Being around her is like internalizing the sound of nails against a chalkboard. It's unbearable.

I wish I could talk to more people that are connected to e6 counterphobia about this because it is absolutely horrendous isn't it?

 

[Starry]

Does this involve romantic or familial involvement? I've had close friends online, but I can't imagine what a person could online could accomplish anything as horrific as you all are describing - unless they became a stalker or something. I've had an online friend try to manipulate a lot of money out of me in the distant past, but I don't think them horrific for it. It was definitely mercenary, but not "fucking sick". I save the term "fucking sick" for people who manipulate others into accepting physical harm from them and other forms of violation that can actually destroy another human being. I've dealt with multiple people like that. The number of people playing emotional games online even to cause a negative emotional reaction goes far beyond what any of us could easily count. Most everyone says something cruel or just harsh to feel right, powerful, superior, for attention, a winner, etc. I've seen the majority of posters do that. The amount of manipulation that goes on during discussion is persistent and widespread - normative even. It's the exception not the rule that someone is really true.

I was just reading a post where you were talking about trust and I related. I like and enjoy many...and trust so very, very few. This is not the orientation most people have is what I've come to understand. I mean, I think it is a popular thing to say these days... To say it is almost a declaration of independence, strength and a decent degree of wit ..."Trust no one." <-Trust no one and you will never be the fool.

The truth is...is for most people trust and appreciation must go hand and hand...grow or diminish side by side. I think people often don't know in a "trust no one" environment...just how much trust they have actually extended another person until it is broken and that pain and embarrassment and shame comes rushing in.

Most of the damage I've heard of...are the stories of the shame and embarrassment of broken trust. With regards to TypoC...I guess I can say I know of a handful that have been lost to the MIA thread. But yah...I've heard all kinds of terrible stories that involve more than broken trust.