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  1. #1
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Default ENFP's: Do you see elements of ISTJ in yourself?

    @Starry

    When I read ISTJ descriptions, I think about how that is the idea I ultimately strive towards, and there is an inner pull that says I SHOULD act that way, but all my strengths and abilities are backwards.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  2. #2
    Senior Member Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    lol sometimes I feel the same, but opposite.
    "Avoid getting too preoccupied thinking about what you’re going to do, to actually do it."
    — Rachel Wolchin

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  3. #3
    Awake Starry's Avatar
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    fuck no
    Walk first through the fire.


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    Expensive Handbasket Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    fuck no
    Yeah...what Starry said.

    It's funny though...I get along with ISTJs really well. Very drawn to (tickle, charm, show them the chaotic side) them. Most of my best friends have been ISTJs.

    Hmm...rethinking. Maybe. When I'm massively stressed. I want to everything to come to a halt while I carefully pour ever detail. Afraid to make a move. Struggle to remember, "What is similar to this problem and has worked before?" Fussy with everything and everybody. Very negative. But I don't really think that's being an ISTJ. It's just my bad personal imitation of one when things suck on a big scale.
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  5. #5
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Yeah...what Starry said.

    It's funny though...I get along with ISTJs really well. Very drawn to (tickle, charm, show them the chaotic side) them. Most of my best friends have been ISTJs.

    Hmm...rethinking. Maybe. When I'm massively stressed. I want to everything to come to a halt while I carefully pour ever detail. Afraid to make a move. Struggle to remember, "What is similar to this problem and has worked before?" Fussy with everything and everybody. Very negative. But I don't really think that's being an ISTJ. It's just my bad personal imitation of one when things suck on a big scale.
    I've become more like a bad version of one as time goes on, and I was like a bad version of one right after my father died when I was very young. Type descriptions don't really fit me anymore since I am constantly fluctuating and even at 21, do not have a firm sense of self that is fixed and permanent.

    One may call @Starry what you want, she knows exactly what she is.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  6. #6
    Awake Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Yeah...what Starry said.

    It's funny though...I get along with ISTJs really well. Very drawn to (tickle, charm, show them the chaotic side) them. Most of my best friends have been ISTJs.

    Hmm...rethinking. Maybe. When I'm massively stressed. I want to everything to come to a halt while I carefully pour ever detail. Afraid to make a move. Struggle to remember, "What is similar to this problem and has worked before?" Fussy with everything and everybody. Very negative. But I don't really think that's being an ISTJ. It's just my bad personal imitation of one when things suck on a big scale.

    When I'm not on my phone I need to post this thing I was recently reading on inferior Si. One of my sisters is ISTJ and for the most part she's an awesome expression of the type. But she also has a touch of the OCD (a heavy touch) and while I do all I can to be sensitive to it...I am often left to think "yah, we're the weird ones...got it."


    Like, a couple of months ago I went to pick her up at her place to go somewhere...and did what I normally do when she goes into lockdown mode (going from room to room...double and triple-checking whatever she's double and triple-checking..."securing" each area so she can leave the home with confidence)...that being...jumping out of her way as she plows back and forth throughout her not very big apt. That night though I really fucked-up...by fucking up her entire process to the point she had to start it all over again because I turned off the bathroom light.

    ^What's weird is I can kinda get like that though and it sounds from what you wrote that you most likely relate. Like, if I'm having to do some *chore*...like organizing something in the physical world that has gone too long without maintenance...like paperwork or my closet... like, some spring-cleaning type shit. I don't fucking know how to do that kind of thing...that I have to break it down beyond the elementary it seems...and one wrong move...like I put a shirt in the dress pile or something on accident...that can push me over the edge to where I need to begin again. These are definitely some of my unhappiest moments. ((I also just thought of my ENFP 8 friend that has to clean her house using the power of anger...she looks like a hardened criminal tornado doing it and people know to go hang-out in the backyard or whatever until she is done.))
    Walk first through the fire.


    *Currently participating in the "No Likes" experiment.
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  7. #7
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    When I'm not on my phone I need to post this thing I was recently reading on inferior Si. One of my sisters is ISTJ and for the most part she's an awesome expression of the type. But she also has a touch of the OCD (a heavy touch) and while I do all I can to be sensitive to it...I am often left to think "yah, we're the weird ones...got it."


    Like, a couple of months ago I went to pick her up at her place to go somewhere...and did what I normally do when she goes into lockdown mode (going from room to room...double and triple-checking whatever she's double and triple-checking..."securing" each area so she can leave the home with confidence)...that being...jumping out of her way as she plows back and forth throughout her not very big apt. That night though I really fucked-up...by fucking up her entire process to the point she had to start it all over again because I turned off the bathroom light.

    ^What's weird is I can kinda get like that though and it sounds from what you wrote that you most likely relate. Like, if I'm having to do some *chore*...like organizing something in the physical world that has gone too long without maintenance...like paperwork or my closet... like, some spring-cleaning type shit. I don't fucking know how to do that kind of thing...that I have to break it down beyond the elementary it seems...and one wrong move...like I put a shirt in the dress pile or something on accident...that can push me over the edge to where I need to begin again. These are definitely some of my unhappiest moments. ((I also just thought of my ENFP 8 friend that has to clean her house using the power of anger...she looks like a hardened criminal tornado doing it and people know to go hang-out in the backyard or whatever until she is done.))
    OCD is another issue I deal with, but it comes up at the weirdest times. If something isn't completely in line with my values, I won't move forward. That said, I'm broken in that I don't really know what I value anymore. I suck at everything and I only survive on the charity of others. I'm bad with people, bad with details, and clumsy and out of shape to the point that physical tasks are dangerous. I might get a couple of hours at the pharmacy (like 2-6 hours per week at 12.64 an hour), and I get $400 a month in disability, but I just barely squeeze by as a rule. Regardless of how little I intrinsically care about the opinions other people have of me, other peoples' opinions determine how good your life is going to be. That's a fact.

    You know, I think I'm an ISTJ in shadow mode rather than ENFP because I'm very poor at ENFP stuff. I just have the weaknesses really big, too.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  8. #8
    Awake Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post

    You know, I think I'm an ISTJ in shadow mode rather than ENFP because I'm very poor at ENFP stuff.

    What is "ENFP stuff"?

    The bolded is the only thing I wholeheartedly agree with from your post. Or said a different way... total e1 disintegration (you are also poorly connected to e5 as well though).

    This actually wasn't what I was reading but this works...

    How Functions Work: Inferior Si (ENTP/ENFP) - Cognitive Function Theory


    How Functions Work: Inferior Si (ENTP/ENFP)

    The inferior function is the hardest to understand and describe. It embodies the part of us that we are least accepting of. Although we are often unaware of its activities, it would be inaccurate to describe the inferior function as “weak” because all of our core functions are powerful in their own way. The power and force of the inferior function actually comes from the mistaken assumption that it has no power. We underestimate the inferior function at our own peril.

    The Role of the Inferior Function

    As you develop, it is natural to become more dependent on the dominant function and unwittingly repress the inferior function in order to give the dominant function as much conscious control over life as possible. However, the dominant function cannot handle reality on its own without feeling increasingly overextended as you push it to the upper limits of its strengths while turning a blind eye to its weaknesses. As you press down harder on the inferior function and resist its perspective, it will gradually feel too constricted and its repressed energy will begin to “leak" into your conscious mind in the form of inexplicable urges or compulsions, especially when you feel frustrated or emotionally vulnerable.

    When you rely too heavily on the dominant function for extended periods of time, the functions below it cannot work in a healthy way, and the inferior function remains deeply submerged in the unconscious mind as you keep repressing that perspective in favor of the dominant function. As the dominant function becomes stretched beyond its capabilities, you will feel increasingly stressed because there will be many life problems that you cannot handle with such a narrow and limited perspective. When life stress depletes your focus and mental energy to critical levels, the dominant function will “burn out” and cause you to lose control of yourself, and this then allows the primitive impulses of the inferior function to “erupt” from the unconscious and take over your conscious mind, a.k.a. being “in the grip” of your inferior function. The degree of reactivity of the inferior function will be related to the force with which you repress its activities. Because the inferior function’s view of the world is the opposite of what you are used to, you will unconsciously resist that perspective even as it floods your consciousness. This results in a distorted view of reality and the weaknesses or destructive side of that function will manifest. By releasing the pent up energy of the inferior function, you can find some temporary relief from stress; however, the extreme out-of-character or destructive behaviors that arise can often exacerbate the problems that were causing the stress to begin with, which can potentially create a negative pattern of destructive behavior.

    According to function theory, the psyche is a self-balancing mechanism. When the inferior function erupts, it is sending you a message informing you that your psyche is out of balance because you are directing most of your mental energy to the dominant function. This means that there is a positive side to the inferior function in terms of telling us where we need to grow and improve in order to rebalance ourselves. Learning to use the inferior function appropriately will recalibrate energy distribution so that your psyche can establish better equilibrium. Therefore, instead of repressing the inferior function, we should gradually learn to be more aware of it and less resistant towards it. Although you cannot use the inferior function as your main approach to life like a dominant function, you can learn to respect it for its strength and power. As you come to understand the value of the inferior function and the advantages it can bring you in daily life, its power to disrupt your conscious mind will gradually fade. You will then gain a new perspective for understanding life, which will lead to more adaptive and effective behaviors.

    Inferior Si

    Ne-doms can use Si consciously for tasks that require categorizing sensory or physical details. For instance, when practicing a skill, one needs to learn methodically and remember mistakes in detail in order to improve one’s performance over time. However, since Si is the opposing force to Ne, Ne is very prone to overriding and repressing Si and misunderstanding its fundamental nature. While Ne-doms can use Si in very simplistic ways, they cannot fathom using Si as a “main approach to life” like a dominant function, and therein lies the main source of psychological conflict.

    Ne focuses on intuiting patterns in the external world in order to discover new ideas or possibilities, with an eye towards taking advantage of any good opportunity that presents itself and making continuous progress. When Ne-doms rely too heavily upon Ne, they will identify with Ne’s activities, using their creative openness to construct the foundation of their identity. Because of this, Ne will feel continually threatened by the Si perspective because Si has the potential to disrupt or shatter one’s ego-image. Si is focused on methodically collecting and sorting personally relevant facts/details in order to feel grounded in one’s own framework of prior knowledge. But Ne tends to misinterpret Si as being boring, overcautious, repetitive, or even stagnant and pointless. Ultimately, Ne forcefully rejects the Si perspective because it fears that getting bogged down in tiny details is wasting precious time that could otherwise be used for pursuing new possibilities or continual progress and, if one does not have trust in future potential, then one has nothing to look forward to in life, as though one’s sense of hopefulness is slowly draining away. Therefore, unhealthy or immature Ne-doms do their utmost to reject Si in order to protect their ego-image as an “optimistic, open, and forward thinking” person.

    However, when Ne-doms rely too heavily upon Ne and suppress Si, they will develop an overly unrealistic and confused view of the world. Instead of using Si appropriately, Ne will use Si to collect “factual” evidence to confirm its own intuitions, premonitions, or ideas. In other words, Ne will develop a maladaptive tendency to misinterpret situations, misjudging the value of the possibilities they see and then entertaining paths that are impractical or unrealistic in expectations, thereby increasing the chances of failure. When Ne is not functioning in a healthy manner, Ne-doms will be more prone to: overlooking important details, making careless errors, failing to learn from past mistakes (and then repeating them), having poor focus, neglecting physical health, continually arriving at dead ends or abandoning ideas midstream. This will lead to a buildup of feelings of incompetence or worthlessness, especially when they are unable to make any concrete progress towards realizing their goals or ideals.

    No function can be fully suppressed, so inferior Si will leak into consciousness in strange ways. Proper Si desires stability through utilizing personal knowledge to carefully sort through facts/details and is completely comfortable with seeing one’s reality as having clear structure, boundaries, and limitations. This can create an underlying sense of anxiety in Ne-doms because Ne fundamentally requires reality to have no boundaries or limits in order to maintain intuitive access to conceptual possibilities. Thus, when Ne becomes overextended, Ne-doms may exhibit somewhat desperate attempts to avoid acknowledging details and personal limitations so that they can feel continually connected to the world of possibility and defend against the restrictive and disciplined nature of Si. For example, they might: present themselves as “experts” and fool themselves into thinking that they have all the facts and details, exude a false air of competence through nitpicking or obsessing over little details, reprimand or mock other people for overlooking minor details, rationalize away past mistakes or dismiss the usefulness of past learning/knowledge, suddenly feel exhausted when confronted with too many loose ends to take care of, endlessly jump from one idea/task to another when too many difficulties crop up, take on too many tasks at once, be unwilling to admit that they have stretched themselves too far, refuse to follow rules, ignore/resent advice to slow down and do things more carefully, and so on.

    However, this means that Ne has not understood the real source of its own anxiety and so the underlying conflict remains unresolved. Ne sees Si as the “enemy” rather than as an important and helpful part of one’s own psyche. The longer this conflict between Ne and Si goes on, the greater the likelihood of succumbing to “the grip”. Ne might try to resist a grip experience by looking for an external scapegoat for its stress and suffering. Not wanting to turn a critical eye on itself, Ne will blame the outside world for its own failure to engage with Si, e.g., by faulting situational factors like lack of time/resources or accusing other people of being unsupportive. On one hand, Ne-doms crave connection with the Si world and unconsciously desire the inner stability, detailed expertise, and methodical focus that the best Si-doms can achieve; on the other hand, they resent themselves for this desire and become defensive by creating a self-pitying mindset, believing that their “great” ideas/visions are doomed to go unrealized, all the while ignoring the real problem. The more they resist acknowledging important details and personal limitations, the more they will feel lost and exhausted and continually confronted by practical concerns.

    Ne-doms can be emotionally triggered in a variety of ways, such as: being judged as having no substance or depth, being seen as unreliable or incompetent, feeling unprepared for an important event or task, having their knowledge of facts doubted by others, being called out for being careless or overlooking details, having to deal with too many details or small practical/logistical matters for a long period of time, dealing with bureaucratic red tape, having a personal value disregarded or violated, being overwhelmed by work, slogging through long periods of repetitive/procedural work, dealing with excessive routine/rules/restrictions/structure, feeling a lack of change/variety, tight deadlines or onerous supervision, lack of intellectual or environmental stimulation, working alone for long periods, being surrounded by negative or apathetic people, working in a poorly managed environment where people do not appreciate ideas for improvement or progress.

    When they become stressed and mentally fatigued to the point where Ne can no longer maintain its dominance, unhealthy Si urges will finally erupt from the unconscious, driving Ne-doms to surrender to Si in a negative or destructive manner. The ways in which these psychological urges manifest behaviorally are often unique to the individual and the circumstances. They tend to lose touch with the world of possibilities and, instead, become pessimistic, withdrawn, inflexible, or obsessed about insignificant details. They might: suffer depression or despair, feel emotionally vulnerable and isolated and unappreciated, become unable to verbalize their thoughts or feelings, have difficulty finding pleasure in any activity, get highly irritable or pedantic or finicky, develop tunnel vision and hyperfocus on one task or detail, obsess about completing tasks and feel irrationally pressed for time, develop compulsive behavior in counting or organizing things, feel overwhelmed with trying to make every little detail perfect or relevant, desperately overanalyze past events/mistakes to find reasons/solutions for their present mood or use past events to justify a negative outlook of the future. Being unused to directing so much attention inwardly, they tend to select details inappropriately, often grabbing hold of a negative thought and projecting it into a future of perpetual melancholy. The inward focus also makes them oversensitive to bodily sensations, with a tendency to misinterpret or exaggerate every minor ache as a sign of grave illness or disease. Ultimately, they lose their motivation and enthusiasm for life, feeling lost or hopeless or adrift.

    In order to properly avoid a grip experience, it is essential that Ne-doms learn the real value of the Si perspective and the advantages it can confer. For Ne-doms, successfully emerging from a grip experience usually requires some solitude and reflection. Warm support from others, rather than advice or judgment, can usually help to ameliorate their emotions. Since they have a tendency to neglect their physical health, it might help to nurture physical needs like eating well and getting enough sleep and exercise. Ne-doms can also find some peace of mind by utilizing productive Si-related activities that require a positive focus on monitoring physical sensations and mental well-being. Whatever activities are chosen, they should accomplish two goals:

    to release and expend Si energy in a way that consciously emphasizes its worth and usefulness, rather than resisting Si or desperately using it to overcompensate for one’s anxieties
    to decrease the dominance of Ne, thereby allowing it to relax and regain its natural optimism and enthusiasm for new possibilities
    Because access to the inferior function is extremely difficult to achieve due to its opposing nature, the auxiliary function must also be used to relieve psychological pressure whenever possible:

    ENTPs can use Ti-related activities to improve their ability to analyze situations and sort out their personal priorities (in order to stay grounded in careful reason and knowledge).
    ENFPs can use Fi-related activities to improve their ability to prioritize tasks that promote personal development and well-being (in order to stay grounded in personal/moral boundaries or values).
    Walk first through the fire.


    *Currently participating in the "No Likes" experiment.
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  9. #9
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    What is "ENFP stuff"?

    The bolded is the only thing I wholeheartedly agree with from your post. Or said a different way... total e1 disintegration (you are also poorly connected to e5 as well though).

    This actually wasn't what I was reading but this works...

    How Functions Work: Inferior Si (ENTP/ENFP) - Cognitive Function Theory
    yes, that.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #10
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    @Starry

    ENFPs are supposed to be great at reaching everybody and have lots of good ideas all the time. I'm just in a rut most of the time.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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