[ENFP] This ENFP is confusing me

[Starry]

Some things that have changed... the first few conversations we had, he was very animated and expressive, we had intense eye contact that we didn't break for ages. Now when I'm talking and telling him something, he has a huge smile on his face and he has shiny eyes. But I have them naturally as well. He has told me what kind of humor he likes and to watch some movies and then write him how I liked them. And at this point he didn't reply back yet. He has told me what kind of women he doesn't like (and they are nothing like me.. blondes etc). But has never talked about relationships or anything.

The good evening messages started when I told him that he is an amazing person and that I can tell that he is a good friend as well... And after this he also used the phrase "I can tell you as a friend to a friend" (which he has only used once before at the beginning when we didn't talk that much and he was telling me something. But he stopped using it. And now he did it again. But right after this phone conversation was that day when he teased me and flirted with me.) So they could be as a joke or as a step back (but ironically he is replying now).

I just know that none of my gay friends are this "obsessed" with me. They don't want to know everything about me etc. They are not I almost want to say "fan girling" over me like this.

I cannot tell when he started to message me back every time, what caused that. But it happened at one point. One time when we talked on the phone and after like half an hour he had to go and he said that we will continue this conversation and he will call me later in the evening (and he said it like 3 times and I didn't even ask him to, he said it himself). And in the evening it was late and he actually texted me to say that he is not going to call me but that he hopes I fell good and wished me a good evening. He could have just not called. I don't get it.

Sorry again strangecat for the scattered messages from me. So, yah...I'm not necessarily seeing the change in him I was attempting to describe as sobriety. It is not really enough to go from 'animated, expressive and intense eye contact' to 'a huge smile and shiny eyes.' Obviously not every ENFP does this but it is still very, very common for ENFPs to be hit hard by the gravity of reality when they recognize another person is no longer a possibility for them. And in many ways I mean that absolutely literally. Here's a post where I talk about the experience...

Okay, so, there are multiple components to (aspects colliding and feeding) his current condition...a condition I know like the back of my hand and yet gravely doubt my ability to explain using words that have subsequently been ordered by me in such a way that they communicate something that actually makes sense. The good news in many ways is this has absolutely nothing to do with you...his opinion of you...his ultimate reading of who you are at the end of the day. You've done nothing...you're doing nothing to cause or exacerbate his condition with your Fe-cocktail. This is all him and it would be him (around this same time and in this same way) regardless.

The bad news is this has nothing to do with you. You've done nothing...you're doing nothing to cause or exacerbate his condition with your Fe-cocktail...

An absolutely brilliant INFJ forum member that due to their modesty and generosity prefers that others not credit them with their own brilliant ideas and explanations wtf? once described NF as having one foot out of reality and planted firmly in the ideal. We go about our daily lives with two films flickering in front of us... "What is" ...and the epic blockbuster "What we believe with every ounce of our heart, mind and soul should be". Getting the NF...especially an individual from one of the two sets of Extroverted Idealists to turn away from "Should be" and hold hands on the couch with popcorn watching "What is" without them cracking and... within a few days...becoming a dictator of a small nation <- is a feat unto itself. But there are some enneagram points where this impossibility must be mathematically doubled and 7w6 is often one of these spots (is he sx dominant? *starts biting nails a little bit*).

An NF at 7 has it entirely within their range to have nothing planted in reality. And I will tell you this is not something that is or will be apparent to others at all. In fact, from everything I have seen, the more pathological the Positive Outlook (and image for the 2s)...the more adored the 2, 7 or 9 will (seemingly) be. For 7 PO is all about tomorrow. It is living in a happy future that has not happened and is thus a place where anything and everything is possible. More NF 7s than you would ever suspect have one foot in the ideal and the other foot firmly planted in the future.

I have an awareness of your strength and autonomy. I know you would never stay in an unpleasant...let alone degrading, hurtful and/or intolerable situation. And so I will tell you something I simply would not say to another individual... his "Fi protests" are, for the time being, a truly positive thing. He's not running away towards the happy future...he is knowingly or unknowingly sobering-up and currently has a really bad hangover.

I'm losing my edge ever since e5 came calling...but it had always been previously that as long as the person existed (for me) in the realm of possibility ...I could be as wonderful and charming and piss-your-pants-fun as I cared to be. Once I truly love though...once I'm utterly devoted and feel somewhat obligated to re-enter reality's orbit in order to intimately exist with the other person ...that is not going to be a good time for me at first. It's going to be painful and confusing and way harder to imagine myself as 100% awesome 100% of the time. I won't be able to do things like ignore all my failures like I like to do. I'll do it. For the right person I will do it but it's hard and takes time for me to get my bearings and locate our shared space where I trust that while I'm awake and living again in the world where I apparently can't help but do the majority of things wrong...you see those wrongs as rights.

It will take a little time and compassion.

Basically, at the precise moment when most people are experiencing this...

We are experiencing this...

^^And I would expect this to be a pretty noticeable contrast. But again, perhaps he is not this way.

His response to me asking why is he always asking stuff and wants to know everything was "I just wanna know" or "I'm curious". And after that when we talked on the phone and I had texted him that "you're a good friend" message, I felt like he had thought about it and that's when he told me that it's just his working method... ummm. And two days later when we met the whole teasing/flirting thing happened.

And the very last time, after I invited him to that event, when we met he totally pretended like nothing had happened and just asked me how I'm doing and I said very good and that was it. Why did he ignore it completely? Didn't even ask me how it was.

And he usually has this huge smile on his face or a completely straight face (but I feel like he is controlling his emotions). He also has a straight face when he is teasing me and he's waiting for my response. And he also had a straight face (but I felt like he is controlling it) when he saw that I was nervous that time the whole flirting happened. And when he asked me or told me that he thinks I'm shy because of him, he had a sneaky smile on his face. And I've seen him with other colleges and he's not flirty with them, he is just kind and he doesn't have the shiny eyes or the huge smile. Another thing is that I've heard him laugh out loud with colleagues but with me he is trying to control his laughter so it's not that loud. He often leaned in when we talked. He also remembers the tiniest details I've told him about myself or what I liked or didn't like but he always forgets all kinds of practical things etc. But he often promises something that I didn't even ask for and then doesn't do it (like the phone call).
He often tries to find out things through kind of manipulating (not in a bad way) with words etc. For example, when we talked about feeling of loneliness or feeling alone, he said that it will change when "you find your.... other... half" and waited for my reaction. And this was early on. At first I took it as him saying that he's not interested but then I realized that he just wanted to know if I have someone. And when I was telling him about my best friend, he asked if that's the guy from my pictures (he had checked them out and kind of gave it away). And two times when I accidentally mentioned other guys, his face changed to serious both times. It's hard to explain but the sudden change was visible. Why?
I don't know but these things kind of made me think he is not actually gay.

And two weeks passed after the time he flirted with me and the last time we met when we didn't talk abut anything personal. That's why I'm worried he has lost interest and maybe has a new one. I think I ruined it IF he liked me

He may have not asked about your outing merely because he felt like he let you down in someway for not going with you and didn't want to hear about it and imagine how it could have been different for you. The fact he got serious the two times you mentioned other guys...that could be romantic jealously...but it could be friendship jealously...or gay man jealously ha. Some NFs are really possessive and really crazy in the head and somewhat full of themselves and want to be everything in their relationships/friendships to the other person...seriously.

What I'm trying to say is that I was a bit full of myself because I thought I'd find something in everything you wrote that would give me a clear or at least confident answer here...and I don't have one for you. Nothing you have provided me is something I can't (just as) easily assign to the "friend/not interested" camp. He could be totally in love with you...but nothing screams that to me so far.

Let's say he was interested in you...and now no longer is though...you didn't do that my god. You didn't ruin anything. And perhaps this is a good thing as something still doesn't sit entirely right for me here. Something's off.

 

[violet_crown]

I find myself wondering sometime what percentage of threads on this site are related to some poor person being bewildered by an intuitive dominant.

 

[strangecat]

Thank you for allowing me to help. Wow...this is a bit challenging to me because again...I recognize all the building materials but the design is very different to me. I mean, this is so/sx construction as well as triple positive outlook I'm assuming but there's a unique influence here that you will want to uncover ((I'm just now realizing I no longer know what your ultimate objective here is since you deleted your posts. I mean I understand that you are trying to ascertain whether or not he is romantically interested in you but what I can't remember is if this is because you are romantically interested in him and view him as a potential partner. I think that's what it is...and so what I'm saying is there's something *there* that figures prominently that you will want to know about))...like *gay*.

So what I'm thinking is...just ask him outright about it quite casually...seeing he was the individual that laid the "we must be COMPLETELY open and honest with each other no matter what ok promise?...and I want to know every tiny detail with regards to your existence" groundwork. With that kind of treaty in place I'm surprised it hasn't already been discussed to be honest. If someone said that to me with purpose like that...I'd be asking them all the tough questions starting with "Are you currently in a relationship?" Okay, actually...I'd just start with "Are you gay? I thought you were when I first met you but today I'm not so sure..." but you could ease your way into it with "Are you currently in a relationship?" (something like this).

EP 7s often have a strange quality in that they are often surrounded by people and cut-off/detached from people at the very same time. It is difficult to explain in spite of the fact I just spent a great deal of time trying to in a different thread. An ENFP male with a few close female friends makes sense to me. An ENFP male with many female friends and no male friends that you have heard of in equal amounts seems pretty gay to me. Also where you mentioned 'fangirling you' sounds pretty gay. An adult ENFP male standard model...that is not only old enough to be a teacher...they actually are a teacher...is going to have an understanding of his charm and what influence that has on female students and females in general (<-I totally forgot what point I was going to make with that but will leave it in...) Being very religious may play a prominent role in all of this if he believes homosexuality is the devils work...for sure. I just recently saw some poll that I thought was fairly credible showing that most devout Christians, Jews and Muslims still believe that homosexuality can actually be cured...so I would consider that.

I'll come back and answer more in a bit...

The reason why I started wondering if he likes me more than a student was because my ex ENFP boyfriend was also "fangirling" at first. And he behaves very similar.
And I feel like he might get offended if he's not gay so I'm not gonna ask that
And you pointed out another reason that got me thinking. I feel like he is very emotionally intelligent and he should definitely be very aware of his charm but he's still using it. And why "casually" give compliments about looks to your student if you're not interested? Especially if you sense that they might like you?

 

[strangecat]

I have virtually all female friendly acquaintances (more than I can count) and only like, 3 male friendly acquaintances. I tend to get along better with females. I've felt attraction to females before, but I've had virtually no sex drive the last 5 years or so, except for fetishism over slowly shapeshifting into a red fox, which is a weird kink, I admit.

I have no real friends, and people think I'm an open book, but I have layers I still don't show people.

Is it hard for you to get close to people? Do you mind eplaining more? Because I'm not aware of your situation

 

[strangecat]

Sorry again strangecat for the scattered messages from me. So, yah...I'm not necessarily seeing the change in him I was attempting to describe as sobriety. It is not really enough to go from 'animated, expressive and intense eye contact' to 'a huge smile and shiny eyes.' Obviously not every ENFP does this but it is still very, very common for ENFPs to be hit hard by the gravity of reality when they recognize another person is no longer a possibility for them. And in many ways I mean that absolutely literally. Here's a post where I talk about the experience...

Basically, at the precise moment when most people are experiencing this...

We are experiencing this...

^^And I would expect this to be a pretty noticeable contrast. But again, perhaps he is not this way.










He may have not asked about your outing merely because he felt like he let you down in someway for not going with you and didn't want to hear about it and imagine how it could have been different for you. The fact he got serious the two times you mentioned other guys...that could be romantic jealously...but it could be friendship jealously...or gay man jealously ha. Some NFs are really possessive and really crazy in the head and somewhat full of themselves and want to be everything in their relationships/friendships to the other person...seriously.

What I'm trying to say is that I was a bit full of myself because I thought I'd find something in everything you wrote that would give me a clear or at least confident answer here...and I don't have one for you. Nothing you have provided me is something I can't (just as) easily assign to the "friend/not interested" camp. He could be totally in love with you...but nothing screams that to me so far.

Let's say he was interested in you...and now no longer is though...you didn't do that my god. You didn't ruin anything. And perhaps this is a good thing as something still doesn't sit entirely right for me here. Something's off.

Thank you for trying. It's very confusing. And I deleted the previous messages so it might be harder to understand.
And what exactly do you think is off? How would you behave in his situation and in general if you liked someone?

The previous messages were about him telling me to watch a movie for example and them write him how I liked it. Or after some soulful conversations asking me to call him or text him but he never does it first. And he has asked me to message him and tell him how I'm doing while he's away but I didn't.

 

[strangecat]

About sobriety... does it only happen when you think you've lost someone and have given up? I have seen this actually when my ex boyfriend and I broke up... it was very depressing to witness

 

[strangecat]

I find myself wondering sometime what percentage of threads on this site are related to some poor person being bewildered by an intuitive dominant.

Right? Insanity. And the thing is, I used to be in a relationship with and ENFP and I still get so confused about this one. What is happening????

 

[Avocado]

Is it hard for you to get close to people? Do you mind eplaining more? Because I'm not aware of your situation

yes. I am very friendly and attract many people at a surface level. I am intimate with none of them, though.

 

[strangecat]

yes. I am very friendly and attract many people at a surface level. I am intimate with none of them, though.

Why not? Is it because you choose not to be? And in that case why?

 

[Avocado]

Why not? Is it because you choose not to be? And in that case why?

autism

 

[strangecat]

Ok, I don't get it. He shares a lot of personal stuff, laughs, compliments me etc one time and then the next time he's almost cold and casual. And he always goes casual after a more intense and personal contact. The thing is we only meet once a week and it's been going on for a few months now. So what I don't get is if I should just forget about it because nothing is ever going to happen cause he is not interested in me like that or maybe it's just moving very slowly since we don't see each other a lot? But we could!. That's the thing.
And once again he told me that he likes talking to me, that "they are going to throw us out" for talking not working but he said this with a laugh and continued talking, he asks about my newest photos all the time on social media, compliments me on random stuff, he gave me something of his and told me to keep it because it matches my hair color... And the next time he told me that he's happy that I have it when I asked if he wants it back.
He told me about this woman who used him and he ended the relationship. Which was strange and random. It didn't get it and thought that he might think that I'm using him as well that's why he's telling me. But then my friend told me that he actually said it because he wanted to let me know that he's not in a relationship. Because I have never asked him. But he kind of has fished an answer out of me about my "status".
And everytime I leave he always asks some random question about me last minute. For example this time it was about one photo and asked me how the place was where I went and told me he's happy I went there. Soo random.

 

[Starry]

Ok, I don't get it. He shares a lot of personal stuff, laughs, compliments me etc one time and then the next time he's almost cold and casual. And he always goes casual after a more intense and personal contact. The thing is we only meet once a week and it's been going on for a few months now. So what I don't get is if I should just forget about it because nothing is ever going to happen cause he is not interested in me like that or maybe it's just moving very slowly since we don't see each other a lot? But we could!. That's the thing.
And once again he told me that he likes talking to me, that "they are going to throw us out" for talking not working but he said this with a laugh and continued talking, he asks about my newest photos all the time on social media, compliments me on random stuff, he gave me something of his and told me to keep it because it matches my hair color... And the next time he told me that he's happy that I have it when I asked if he wants it back.
He told me about this woman who used him and he ended the relationship. Which was strange and random. It didn't get it and thought that he might think that I'm using him as well that's why he's telling me. But then my friend told me that he actually said it because he wanted to let me know that he's not in a relationship. Because I have never asked him. But he kind of has fished an answer out of me about my "status".
And everytime I leave he always asks some random question about me last minute. For example this time it was about one photo and asked me how the place was where I went and told me he's happy I went there. Soo random.

I had started to respond to your previous posts...went out of town...and now cannot restore the content.


In short, I would need to know how inappropriate it would be for the two of you to be in an visable/known relationship prior to being able to provide a rough idea of how he *may* be feeling for you. I mean, I'm still stuck in a bad way on the fact he is your teacher. Not only do the two of you work together but he is your teacher as well...don't you see?

If, depending on the uniqueness of this particular situation, no one would think twice/frown upon the two of you being together as a known couple...nothing would threaten his position and standing in this regard...then I would say he is not interested in you romantically. The only way for you to be certain would be for you to ask him which I strongly encourage you to do. But if all of what I just said is the case...I would say he is just being ENFP friendly.

If there would be a problem with the two of you being together...then perhaps he is attempting to control his feelings...idk...but there is a chance of this.


edit: Also...I don't understand why your friend thought he was attempting to get it across to you that he is not in a relationship by telling you about a girl that used him. That doesn't make sense to me as he could certainly have a current partner and was merely mentioning a previous partner?

 

[five sounds]

whoa!

okay so first of all, him not asking about your event...i wouldn't read too deep into that. sounds like he's asking you plenty of personal questions as it is.

now, as far as my personal ENFP experience goes, i'm social instinct last. so some of his weirdness/mixed signals i can kinda see hanging on that in an *if it were me* situation. like maybe he likes you, thinks that should trump any kind of "rule" against it, and is at the same time pretty aware of how unaware he is of what might be *okay* and what might be wildly inappropriate.

the way i would respond to him would be to hold him to what he's saying to you. wants you to call him he says? fucking call him and see how reacts. like testing the boundaries/validity of what he's ACTUALLY saying.

as far as what's unsaid, i agree with [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], putting me in the just ask him point blank camp.

now Ne dominance is certainly characterized by genuinely not having answers to these kinds of questions. odds are, he doesn't really have his mind made up about what he's doing with you, and is kinda following a lead because you make him feel like you're someone worth knowing. conversely, odds are, he's imagined quite a few possibilities as far as how he'd like to "know you". like is he picturing a long term friendship that blossoms into romance after your awkward student/teacher/work relationship is over? is he picturing himself as some kind of uber cool dad mentor who helps you find your way in a cold dark world? is he picturing some kinda secrety fling where you two keep it cool in public and boink on the side? 50 bucks says he's got at least two "scenarios" in his head about where you two could figuratively go if he's pursuing you.

my take-home message for figuring out any ENFP is always to explore the ideas they're exploring about you in an open way. like, yeah maybe the event invitation was too concrete. maybe he needs to be able to talk to you in a space where his jury is allowed to be out in order to open up to you about what's actually going on in his mind.

also, for all parties involved, how is the elephant in the classroom (the fact that he's your teacher) really influencing all of this? besides obvious taboos, there's a power element involved in that dynamic. are you viewing and dealing with him in a way that is more permissive or submissive or even romanticized because of his position? is it possible that he's fetishizing you in a similar way? idk. just stuff to think about i guess.

 

[strangecat]

I had started to respond to your previous posts...went out of town...and now cannot restore the content. In short, I would need to know how inappropriate it would be for the two of you to be in an visable/known relationship prior to being able to provide a rough idea of how he *may* be feeling for you. I mean, I'm still stuck in a bad way on the fact he is your teacher. Not only do the two of you work together but he is your teacher as well...don't you see? If, depending on the uniqueness of this particular situation, no one would think twice/frown upon the two of you being together as a known couple...nothing would threaten his position and standing in this regard...then I would say he is not interested in you romantically. The only way for you to be certain would be for you to ask him which I strongly encourage you to do. But if all of what I just said is the case...I would say he is just being ENFP friendly. If there would be a problem with the two of you being together...then perhaps he is attempting to control his feelings...idk...but there is a chance of this. edit: Also...I don't understand why your friend thought he was attempting to get it across to you that he is not in a relationship by telling you about a girl that used him. That doesn't make sense to me as he could certainly have a current partner and was merely mentioning a previous partner?

I understand you sooooo well, no worries. I just really appreciate that you are helping me at all!! Because this might be annoying since it's a popular topic about ENFPs that people ask all the time. And I do the same thing where I start to respond or something and get distracted and then forget about it...
I don't think that the teacher thing could be a problem that's why I'm questioning this whole thing.
And my friend usually notices some clues that I miss. But I'm not sure if my friend is correct.
The thing is he does this a lot and I don't know if I should read into this. For example he will explain himself a lot and give useless information for a casual friendship, imo. It seems like he wants to impress me sometimes. I'll give you a few examples. When I'm talking about my friends (my best guy friend for example) I don't explain or clarify anything. I just tell a story and mention him. And the first time I told him about my best guy friend he got serious and maybe tought that he is my boyfriend. I did say in another conversation later on that he is just my best friend to which he asked that time if he's the guy from my pictures (he had already checked them out). And that same time when we talked about lonliness he said that it will change when I find my other half and waited for my reaction. And I took this negatively (as I usually do) that he is not interested but then my friend pointed out that he actually found out this way that I'm single. And he has admitted as well that he likes to say things to get a reaction or to fish for some answers. And later in a different conversation I realized that my friend was right and it wasn't just a random thing he said because I was telling him a story about a guy who was hitting on me and he told me that I can always count on him and if I ever need any help or want to talk I can call him "of course if your husband doesn't mind", he said. And this ENFP (I don't know how to refer to him) started laughing and said "Yeah, that's how he found out that you don't have one!" And I tought - you did the same thing!!!!! He recognized that guy's tactics because he's using them as well!!
(And that's why my friend said that he told me that so I know he's not in a relationship and it is consistent with his tactics. I had never asked him anything related to relationships and now it seemed like he just decided to tell me himself. And I'm almost 100% certain he is single because guys in relationships always mention one way or another that they are in a relationship. And he's definitely not a player who's hiding his relationship. He is religious and has good morals from what I can tell and we've talked a lot.)
But when he is telling me something it usually goes like this "My friend and I once played this prank... we studied together, just one friend and she lives in a different country now.. anyways.." Why does it matter? In my opinion it's some useless piece of information unless you don't want the other person to think that you have something going on with them. And I never do that if I want to tell a story. He's clarifying a lot. He's also telling me stories about his successes or if somebody said something good about him. About things as well... for example when he gave me something of his, let's say a hat... It went like this.. I said you have a cool hat can I try it on? He said yeah sure.. do you want it? I was like ummmm... He said you can have it! I said ok but why? You don't like it? He said no I do but it suits your hair, take it! It was so random why would you just give it away like that? And the reason was that it suits my hair?! Anyways... as I took it I was cautious because it was strange that he told me so randonly to have it and I said what kind of hat is that I just thought if it's like expesive or something I won't take it. He said noo it's from this place (not expensive). And the next time we met I was wearing it and he asked me how it was? I said that I like it and I've gotten compliments etc but I can give it back to which he said "Noo, I'm happy that you have it!" AND then he randomly starts explaining how he likes cool hats and that they are cheap but he likes them because of the designs and it doesn't matter that they are cheap etc. Something strange like that. Basically giving excuses why it wasn't expensive? But I don't care honestly.
Another random thing.. We were talking about something and he accidentally told me the street he lives on and it's not the best neighborhood I guess not that I care. And I asked him you live there?? and he said... yeaaahhh. And then another time he was like "Yeah I have this tiny apartment in the city BUT I also have a house outside the city". Once again I tought why even say that your apartment is small? Useless information, unless you think that I am going to see it sometime and want to prepare me. Because I have a huge apartment in the city. It seems like he is trying to impress me definitely or just doesn't want me to think badly of him. But honestly I don't care about that stuff.
There have been more things like that and I feel like he is trying to impress me.

 

[strangecat]

whoa! okay so first of all, him not asking about your event...i wouldn't read too deep into that. sounds like he's asking you plenty of personal questions as it is. now, as far as my personal ENFP experience goes, i'm social instinct last. so some of his weirdness/mixed signals i can kinda see hanging on that in an *if it were me* situation. like maybe he likes you, thinks that should trump any kind of "rule" against it, and is at the same time pretty aware of how unaware he is of what might be *okay* and what might be wildly inappropriate. the way i would respond to him would be to hold him to what he's saying to you. wants you to call him he says? fucking call him and see how reacts. like testing the boundaries/validity of what he's ACTUALLY saying. as far as what's unsaid, i agree with [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], putting me in the just ask him point blank camp. now Ne dominance is certainly characterized by genuinely not having answers to these kinds of questions. odds are, he doesn't really have his mind made up about what he's doing with you, and is kinda following a lead because you make him feel like you're someone worth knowing. conversely, odds are, he's imagined quite a few possibilities as far as how he'd like to "know you". like is he picturing a long term friendship that blossoms into romance after your awkward student/teacher/work relationship is over? is he picturing himself as some kind of uber cool dad mentor who helps you find your way in a cold dark world? is he picturing some kinda secrety fling where you two keep it cool in public and boink on the side? 50 bucks says he's got at least two "scenarios" in his head about where you two could figuratively go if he's pursuing you. my take-home message for figuring out any ENFP is always to explore the ideas they're exploring about you in an open way. like, yeah maybe the event invitation was too concrete. maybe he needs to be able to talk to you in a space where his jury is allowed to be out in order to open up to you about what's actually going on in his mind. also, for all parties involved, how is the elephant in the classroom (the fact that he's your teacher) really influencing all of this? besides obvious taboos, there's a power element involved in that dynamic. are you viewing and dealing with him in a way that is more permissive or submissive or even romanticized because of his position? is it possible that he's fetishizing you in a similar way? idk. just stuff to think about i guess.

That's what I'm trying to do now. At first I wasn't so sure and I didn't call him or text him as he had asked. Because at first he didnt really respond to my texts that much if I said something. Example. He told me to watch a movie and then tell him how I liked it. And then he didnt respond. But at one point he actually started answering to all my texts. And explaining himself a lot. For example one time we talked on the phone and when we had to end the conversation he told me that we will continue it later and that he will call me later (I didnt ask him to he said it himself) and he said it like 2 or 3 times that he is going to call me. In the evening he texted me and apologized that hes tired after a long day and wont call me but that he hopes I feel good and wished me a good evening and told me see you in two days blah blah. I tought that it was nice that he actually texted me cause he could have just not called but still I felt kind of rejected and I didnt even ask him to call me he said that he is going to do it himself! There have been more times when he promised me something that I didnt even ask and then didnt do it. And one time when we talked about movies I told him that this one movie is very good and he said I will watch it I promise. And I was like "Nooo, don't promise me anything!! Cause you never do it!" And he laughed that yeah he promises and then fails to do it. And then he suggested me a movie to watch and said "ok you watch this one and I'll watch that one". Of course he didnt. And when we met he was like "Did you watch the movie? I didnt because my computer broke down." And I said "That's why I didnt even ask you because I knew you probably didnt watch it!" He laughed. And I also told him that his excuse sounds like BS. (Shouldnt have probably)
Another thing. Sometimes when I want to talk to him I'll text him and tell him to call me. And sometimes if it is in the evening he wilk say that he will call tomorrow. And then one time I texted him in the morning that he can call me now and he did right away. And another time (it was the last time) when we were working I was super tired and down and before I left he told me to text him when I get home. So I did and I also added that I wanna talk to somebody maybe he wants to talk. And replied Thank you for texting that you are home but that he doesnt feel well and will call me tomorrow. And once again I thought that it is BS so I told him that I would really appreciate it if he was honest with me and he said that he really doest feel well and that he will call tomorrow. The next morning I texted him that maybe he should rest at home if he doesnt feel good and he said that that's exactly what he's doing today. And the whole day he didnt call of course but in the evening when I got home I texted him that Im home and he can call me if he wants to. He did call right away once again and we talked for an hour again. So it's strange that when I tell him that he can call now he does right away but if it's vague he doesn't. I don't get it. Does he need encouragement or he doesn't want to talk to me and feels guilty and then calls?
When we had the phone conversation at one point he said "I'm talking too much, now you talk". So he does want me to talk?! And yeah he still asked a lot of questions etc. Told me he is going to invite me to this one event in the summer so I can see what he's doing. He asked a lot about my opinions on things etc. And at the end of the conversation he told me that he is going to text me tomorrow how he is doing at this one event (also said it several times and once again I didnt ask him to). And of course he didnt text me. Was he waiting for me to ask him how hes doing? Why do I always need to do it first? And why does he keep promising things and not doing them or asking me to text him??? Is he testing me like this or what? I tought that maybe by telling me that hes going to text me he actually wanted me to do it and ask him how hes doing?! I dont know... Would you do that?
And about the scenarios I tought the same thing. I sometimes feel like he has a plan. And also the whole flirting thing really made me lose my focus and I also told him sometimes to stop doing something or that hes making me laugh and I cannot concentrate. And the last few times he has been more professional. And I tought hes losing interest but I think he understands that its distracting me thats why. Because he keeps giving me indirect compliments and sometimes direct and he keeps talking to me and asking questions etc.
About the dad scenario I tought that at first but now Im not sure. He is older than me and at first he did refer to me as young or himself as "maybe Im old... but I think this and that" to which I always replied that I think the same way (indicating it is not the age) and he stopped doing that at one point. And now in the last conversation we had he was telling me about something and he actually said "but in OUR generation..." This is the first time he put us both in the same "bag". I was quite happy about that!
And I'm really trying to go with the flow as you said and follow whatever plan he has imagined. Because I kind of naturally do the same thing. I just really hope he actually has something in his mind and its bot just one big flow without any substance.

About the teacher thing he told me early on to not view him as a teacher and that we need to be completely open with each other. And we act like friends mostly... we hug every time and the last few times have been really nice. Because Im finally starting to feel the hug getting tigher. And the last time he stretched his arms out and gave this very cute look on his face with a smile. I feel like we are getting closer. So a friendship at least is definitely going to happen here. And also all the things we talk about.. are definitely not something most people share with teachers its more personal. And we also talked about hair the last time and i kind of teasted him and at the end when we said goodbye and hugged I actually messed up his hair I wanted to see his reaction because a lot of people dont like their hair to be touched or messed with. But he liked it and he smiled kind of shyly, kind of with a glad expression haha.

 

[strangecat]

Maybe I should let this go. Do you know why it's hard for me? Because if I really like someone as a friend or more doesn't matter, I really try my best to always be open, let them in, be honest and really share with that person and it makes me very vulnerable. And it's so easy to get hurt this way if they don't feel the same way (with friendships as well). And what makes me confused is the fact that he said that we need to be completely open with each other and I took it seriously. But maybe he didn't think of it like that. And we both like talking with eachother he has said it many times as well but what I feel I need is to talk more,share more etc and totally immerse myself into that person. Even if it is just friendship. What I'm looking for in relationships of any kind is that soul connection and this is how I connect... When we don't see each other or talk for long periods of time, I really miss our connection, then I start to think negatively and decide that there is actually no connection and it is all in my mind. Then to protect myself I decide to shut down. And I know that if I do it completely, everything will be lost and I will definitely lose the connection if there is one. I just become so unsure if we don't talk more often. If it is how he says then how come he doesnt want to talk to me more often? Or maybe he does? I dont know. But this is hard because I really miss just talking to him more often. Maybe I should say it or ask about it?

Actually he said something similar to me about that woman who used him. He said that he was completely open and then she used him so he ended it. And why did he tell this to me? Maybe thats why he is scared to do it again? Or maybe she made him feel so strongly about herself and he went through it but he doesnt feel that strongly about me... even though he asked me to be completely open... but now I feel like I feel more strongly. I'm so upset actually. And I feel like I will never find anyone who will feel that strongly about me.


At this point I just really want to protect myself. But if I do it I will end all possibilities. Do you understand what I'm saying? I just want to know his side. But it would be strange to ask and would make things very awkward. How could I tell him that I'm very vulnerable??

 

[Starry]

I understand you sooooo well, no worries. I just really appreciate that you are helping me at all!! Because this might be annoying since it's a popular topic about ENFPs that people ask all the time. And I do the same thing where I start to respond or something and get distracted and then forget about it...

I don't think that the teacher thing could be a problem that's why I'm questioning this whole thing.
And my friend usually notices some clues that I miss. But I'm not sure if my friend is correct.
The thing is he does this a lot and I don't know if I should read into this. For example he will explain himself a lot and give useless information for a casual friendship, imo. It seems like he wants to impress me sometimes. I'll give you a few examples. When I'm talking about my friends (my best guy friend for example) I don't explain or clarify anything. I just tell a story and mention him. And the first time I told him about my best guy friend he got serious and maybe tought that he is my boyfriend. I did say in another conversation later on that he is just my best friend to which he asked that time if he's the guy from my pictures (he had already checked them out). And that same time when we talked about lonliness he said that it will change when I find my other half and waited for my reaction. And I took this negatively (as I usually do) that he is not interested but then my friend pointed out that he actually found out this way that I'm single. And he has admitted as well that he likes to say things to get a reaction or to fish for some answers. And later in a different conversation I realized that my friend was right and it wasn't just a random thing he said because I was telling him a story about a guy who was hitting on me and he told me that I can always count on him and if I ever need any help or want to talk I can call him "of course if your husband doesn't mind", he said. And this ENFP (I don't know how to refer to him) started laughing and said "Yeah, that's how he found out that you don't have one!" And I tought - you did the same thing!!!!! He recognized that guy's tactics because he's using them as well!!
(And that's why my friend said that he told me that so I know he's not in a relationship and it is consistent with his tactics. I had never asked him anything related to relationships and now it seemed like he just decided to tell me himself. And I'm almost 100% certain he is single because guys in relationships always mention one way or another that they are in a relationship. And he's definitely not a player who's hiding his relationship. He is religious and has good morals from what I can tell and we've talked a lot.)
But when he is telling me something it usually goes like this "My friend and I once played this prank... we studied together, just one friend and she lives in a different country now.. anyways.." Why does it matter? In my opinion it's some useless piece of information unless you don't want the other person to think that you have something going on with them. And I never do that if I want to tell a story. He's clarifying a lot. He's also telling me stories about his successes or if somebody said something good about him. About things as well... for example when he gave me something of his, let's say a hat... It went like this.. I said you have a cool hat can I try it on? He said yeah sure.. do you want it? I was like ummmm... He said you can have it! I said ok but why? You don't like it? He said no I do but it suits your hair, take it! It was so random why would you just give it away like that? And the reason was that it suits my hair?! Anyways... as I took it I was cautious because it was strange that he told me so randonly to have it and I said what kind of hat is that I just thought if it's like expesive or something I won't take it. He said noo it's from this place (not expensive). And the next time we met I was wearing it and he asked me how it was? I said that I like it and I've gotten compliments etc but I can give it back to which he said "Noo, I'm happy that you have it!" AND then he randomly starts explaining how he likes cool hats and that they are cheap but he likes them because of the designs and it doesn't matter that they are cheap etc. Something strange like that. Basically giving excuses why it wasn't expensive? But I don't care honestly.
Another random thing.. We were talking about something and he accidentally told me the street he lives on and it's not the best neighborhood I guess not that I care. And I asked him you live there?? and he said... yeaaahhh. And then another time he was like "Yeah I have this tiny apartment in the city BUT I also have a house outside the city". Once again I tought why even say that your apartment is small? Useless information, unless you think that I am going to see it sometime and want to prepare me. Because I have a huge apartment in the city. It seems like he is trying to impress me definitely or just doesn't want me to think badly of him. But honestly I don't care about that stuff.
There have been more things like that and I feel like he is trying to impress me.

Based on everything you've said I still don't have a clue how this guy feels about you. Albeit in seemingly different ways...I think you and I both are getting tripped-up on social dominance here. Like, maybe he is trying to size you up with his roundabout ways of information gathering...and perhaps he is trying to impress you with his references to the ways he's been recognized and unnecessary comments as they pertain to what he owns and/or has accumulated for himself. But you and I shouldn't judge these things on what they might mean if we were to do and say them (side note: it has always creeped me out when guys do that "...that's if your husband/bf wouldn't mind." *shivers*) This is how social doms often operate/manipulate...these are the signs and symbols they value and have a tendency to focus on as they go about their daily lives.

I very much want to tell you that in my opinion I think he is interested but feel it would be irresponsible for me to do so at this point. I mean, he is definitely interested in you...this seems obvious to me. But romantically interested? I cannot say. Thus far, I cannot rule out he is merely doing the social dom thang.

I briefly skimmed your last post in this thread. And while I may come back to comment further I will say for now that I very much relate to the vulnerability you describe. I don't see myself as having all that much to offer...but the little I do have is purely me and so it raises the stakes doesn't it? I mean, even if I had countless assets that I could stand behind protected...it is unclear to me if I would. And I know I certainly wouldn't knowingly. It seems a bit compromising to me to say...offer a material possession to another person as if I've extended a part of my soul when I'm still quite tucked away...and then expect some piece of authenticity back from them in an in kind type fashion. No. I would never consciously choose this...I would always choose to give of me. But it greatly shortens the distance...the time it would take for another person to tear you apart when you gauge it wrong and turn yourself over to the wrong person. I understand what you indicate you are risking here. I will think on this more in case I have something to add.

 

[strangecat]

Based on everything you've said I still don't have a clue how this guy feels about you. Albeit in seemingly different ways...I think you and I both are getting tripped-up on social dominance here. Like, maybe he is trying to size you up with his roundabout ways of information gathering...and perhaps he is trying to impress you with his references to the ways he's been recognized and unnecessary comments as they pertain to what he owns and/or has accumulated for himself. But you and I shouldn't judge these things on what they might mean if we were to do and say them (side note: it has always creeped me out when guys do that "...that's if your husband/bf wouldn't mind." *shivers*) This is how social doms often operate/manipulate...these are the signs and symbols they value and have a tendency to focus on as they go about their daily lives. I very much want to tell you that in my opinion I think he is interested but feel it would be irresponsible for me to do so at this point. I mean, he is definitely interested in you...this seems obvious to me. But romantically interested? I cannot say. Thus far, I cannot rule out he is merely doing the social dom thang. I briefly skimmed your last post in this thread. And while I may come back to comment further I will say for now that I very much relate to the vulnerability you describe. I don't see myself as having all that much to offer...but the little I do have is purely me and so it raises the stakes doesn't it? I mean, even if I had countless assets that I could stand behind protected...it is unclear to me if I would. And I know I certainly wouldn't knowingly. It seems a bit compromising to me to say...offer a material possession to another person as if I've extended a part of my soul when I'm still quite tucked away...and then expect some piece of authenticity back from them in an in kind type fashion. No. I would never consciously choose this...I would always choose to give of me. But it greatly shortens the distance...the time it would take for another person to tear you apart when you gauge it wrong and turn yourself over to the wrong person. I understand what you indicate you are risking here. I will think on this more in case I have something to add.

So why would he want to impress me? What is the reason behind that? To make him feel better about himself? I don't understand.
And I think I didn't mention that our age difference isn't that big (9 years).

 

[Starry]

So why would he want to impress me? What is the reason behind that? To make him feel better about himself? I don't understand.
And I think I didn't mention that our age difference isn't that big (9 years).

Umm...I'm not sure if I have what it takes to explain the social variant properly due to the fact it is so alien to me. Which I suspect is your issue as well and why there is a chance you might be reading his behavior incorrectly.

I think many social doms and strong social seconds *do* have an overarching need/desire to be seen as "impressive"...because...let's see here...


I'm a sexual dom and live in the realm of the intimate. In this way the number of people I care to impress?...fuck impress isn't even the right word for me. Unless...*impressively unappealing but still valued and adored in spite of it all* falls within that category. I want all the ways I fall short out in the open...I want all the ways I am decidedly not impressive to be well known by another...and for that another to still wish to come close.

The social realm is different in that intimacy is somewhat compromised in favor of having contact with many. Well, in a realm where you are not as intricately known...you must rely on totems and signs and symbols to communicate what time and exposure and digging deep reveals for my people.

In his mind...living in a small apt. in a bad part of town...communicates the wrong thing about him in his world... and so he must correct that by outright telling you that he owns a decent home somewhere where good, clean, non-violent people live. Something like that.

Like I said...it could very well be about impressing you. But I can't rule out that it isn't just him communicating who he is in his language - if that makes sense.

 

[strangecat]

Umm...I'm not sure if I have what it takes to explain the social variant properly due to the fact it is so alien to me. Which I suspect is your issue as well and why there is a chance you might be reading his behavior incorrectly. I think many social doms and strong social seconds *do* have an overarching need/desire to be seen as "impressive"...because...let's see here... I'm a sexual dom and live in the realm of the intimate. In this way the number of people I care to impress?...fuck impress isn't even the right word for me. Unless...*impressively unappealing but still valued and adored in spite of it all* falls within that category. I want all the ways I fall short out in the open...I want all the ways I am decidedly not impressive to be well known by another...and for that another to still wish to come close. The social realm is different in that intimacy is somewhat compromised in favor of having contact with many. Well, in a realm where you are not as intricately known...you must rely on totems and signs and symbols to communicate what time and exposure and digging deep reveals for my people. In his mind...living in a small apt. in a bad part of town...communicates the wrong thing about him in his world... and so he must correct that by outright telling you that he owns a decent home somewhere where good, clean, non-violent people live. Something like that. Like I said...it could very well be about impressing you. But I can't rule out that it isn't just him communicating who he is in his language - if that makes sense.

Thank you for explaining. But still shouldn't there be a reason for them to even want to "impress" you? Or it doesn't matter because everyone is improtatnt to impress? Is there a test for this? I want to do it as well.

Well the last time we met he actually pulled me in for a hug when saying goodbye. And our hugs are getting tighter each time.
And he also turns away when something "emotional" happens. I don't know how to explain. For example when laughing hard about something, he turns away because he has tears in his eyes and he's controlling his laughter. Or after I gave him a peck on the cheek to congratulate him on something. I guess he didnt expect it. He immediately turned around but he kept talking and I could hear in his voice that he was smiling. Could it be because he didn't want me to see him smile or blush? There was this other instance where he showed me something and at certain points moved his head around for me to not see his face.

I called him yetsreday and he told me he was happy I called him.
I adressed the problem with him always promising things and not doing them and he told me that yeah he needs to change his ways and get better at it.
He asked about my family (names etc) and told me the names of his siblings randomly.
He asked about what I did over the span of the week and specifically and event I went to. He was like I know you went there. And I was like how? He said I KNOWWW. It was on my fb. He's always checking it!!! Why??
I don't even check my friends facebooks or ask them about everything. And he always does this.
And he always tells me to text him or send something to him etc. He will always find a reason. Feels like he wants me to write to him. I don't get it. Why do that if you're not interested and it's just your working style or whatever the excuse. It honestly feels like an excuse. It's still the same problem why I started this topic. And I told him to call me sometimes as well and he said he will. But I said that I would be surprised since he is always promising but not actually doing it. Why not just say goodbye until the next time? It feels like he want sto keep me hanging... but he's not putting in the same effort. Is it just to boost his ego or is he testing me this way or what on earth?