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  1. #41
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think you just kind of have to let them cut off their noses until they figure it out for themselves, don't you? Natural consequences are the best teacher unless the natural consequences will cause lasting harm (ie you can't teach your child the dangers of the road by letting them get run over), but being upset and missing breakfast? That's just normal life stuff. If he's still really upset about it at the end of the school day, then I'd worry.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  2. #42
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I wish this thread hadn't been moved. It has potential to become more general about the issues of Fe types when stressed, cutting off noses etc... now it's sorta limited to being just about your son not eating his breakfast lol
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  3. #43
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Sounds like me, although I didn't start till I was 3-4.

    I see two major influences here.

    At first,this sounds like a personality conflict, but the time horizon is wrong. Given that, chances are he's seeking severe independence (beyond what is normal). This ties in with the second - namely that he isn't getting it (and this isn't measured in practical terms, but emotional... hence: )

    It also sounds like the more he does it, the more of a reaction he gets. Having started at a young age, it is likely burnt into him to do these things for reasons that he no longer understands. In the teen years, it'll appear more like independence, however that shouldn't of kicked in at such a young age, so it likely stems from some form of reinforcement. It could also relate to any parental interactions, such as him identifying with his father, and your behavior towards his father. It is less likely, given the time frame, but it could also combine together.

    (Kept brief so that you can mull it over and see if it fits at all)

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Although this is dealing with a very young ENFJ and different rules will apply I think it shows perfect examples of T/F misunderstandings. There is a wall. T's attempt to break the wall with a sledgehammer when the best strategy would actually be to dig under it. Use Ni to your advantage and don't ignore the elephant in the room so to speak.

    Here is what my idea of acknowledging this would sound like:
    Waking up late is a tough way to start the day. Lets get moving and see if we can get the day back on the right track. *stop talking*

    This would allow me to vent if I feel like it or leave it alone. The door is open. I am an almost rigidly on time person. I know the turmoil being late can cause. I am gonna beat myself up a little bit it's what I do. Xander had a good point too....if you can get me to laugh about 'a serious situation' you will be doing pretty good. I can get all worked up at times. The people who are endeared closest to my heart are the ones who can bring the humor out in me.

  5. #45
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Pride.

    Based upon my ENFJ friend, sometimes it means more to succeed when there is adversity so much so that adding your own adversity is considered a viable tactic and others trying to remove it is considered interferring.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I wish this thread hadn't been moved. It has potential to become more general about the issues of Fe types when stressed, cutting off noses etc... now it's sorta limited to being just about your son not eating his breakfast lol
    Thank you. I agree.

    Frankly, if he doesn't want to eat breakfast because he's not hungry, I really am not such a control freak that I'm going to cram it down his throat.

    However, as his mother, I am going to encourage him to eat because it's the right and healthy thing to do. And that's my job... teaching him healthy habits.

    It turns out when he got to his meeting, other people had food and gave him some, so he was fine.

    Those of you who said he was probably so upset he no longer felt hungry, I found out last night were right, but I'm glad he put something in his tummy when he got to school.

    Sub's advice was the most helpful to me, and I will be following it from now on.

  7. #47
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    ...
    Here is what my idea of acknowledging this would sound like:
    Waking up late is a tough way to start the day. Lets get moving and see if we can get the day back on the right track. *stop talking*

    This would allow me to vent if I feel like it or leave it alone. The door is open. I am an almost rigidly on time person. I know the turmoil being late can cause. I am gonna beat myself up a little bit it's what I do.
    That sounds like a very good suggestion. I'm going to try it.

    Xander had a good point too....if you can get me to laugh about 'a serious situation' you will be doing pretty good. I can get all worked up at times. The people who are endeared closest to my heart are the ones who can bring the humor out in me.
    He hates it when people try to make him laugh when he's in the middle of being mad or whatever. He feels like people are minimizing his feelings.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    ... and it's driving me insane!!!

    [This is NOT a rant thread.}

    What in the world can I do??
    (I realize the solution will require long-term application.)

    I'm 90% sure he's ENFJ, it's just that he's pretty observant and has a great sense of direction, so...
    But otherwise, when you take in the big picture, he seems ENFJ, or even INFJ, at times.

    This morning I was supposed to have him at school at 7 AM. He was supposed to wake me up at 6:15, but he overslept and woke me at 6:55. He didn't want to take the time to eat. He said he guessed he would just have to wait until lunch time (which he's always starving for, by the time it comes). So I grabbed a food bar and poured him some milk in a travel mug so he could eat in the car on the way over.

    When we arrived at school, I realized he hadn't eaten, so I suggested he should bring the stuff in with him. He refused! It's like he punishes himself on purpose. He's way too rigid and I don't know how to help him!

    He has always been stubborn and perfectionistic. It started when he was 2.
    His biggest problem is controlling his desire to break things when he gets frustrated.
    He's not "sick" enough to need medication.

    Anybody had success with this??
    I've done that. Its really not that big of a deal. When I was 14, I hated it whenever my parents suggested what I should do. It sounds to me that he wants to be in control over what he does, and that your suggesting that he eat something was incringing on his control. What worked for me was for my parents to ask non-threatening (to my control) questions once, then for them to drop the subject if I refused. Eventually, after a couple days I was much more receptive to the suggestions that they made. Hope this helps for future incidences.

  9. #49
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Okay, I'm a 14 year old ENFP. Honestly I probably wouldn't want to look lame with a travel mug.

    Or like...if I just woke up and was shoved into a car and was expected to eat in 5 minutes....lol, screw that right. Might as well just wait until lunch.

    I have ENFJ friends. Yeah, they're just being perfectionistic. I think they might be feeling a little bad that they woke up so late having to put you through the trouble of making a bunch of extra stuff for them.
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  10. #50
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    I think I tend to do the kind of thing you describe in your son. The issue isn't the food itself, but finding a way to bring my raging emotions back under control. (Also, I lose my appetite when I get agitated.)

    If I were your son, the fact that I skipped breakfast would pale beside the fact that I'd screwed up my plans and made a mess of things and failed to keep my promise to my mother. Food? That's nothing! So being asked by my mother to eat breakfast in the car as a way to Solve the Problem (and there is a Problem, and it's usually about my cosmic failure as a human being) feels a bit like being asked to put a Sponge-Bob Band-Aid on that amputated arm and get on with life.

    There may be something to the idea that he's punishing himself on purpose. There are times I hate myself and just feel better when I get a wee bit of "revenge" on myself by suffering the complete consequences for my stupid actions. He may not feel that he deserves to eat breakfast because he overslept and messed up the plans. (I don't know--just speculating, here.) Your forcing him to eat breakfast only heaps the guilt and anger back on himself. What he needs is a way to get rid of the guilt.

    Of course, from your perspective, the only real problem is that he hasn't had breakfast and he's going to be hungry. Food solves the problem, and he's just being difficult. I understand that, too. As he gets older he'll learn how to moderate his emotional responses to the actual severity of the situation.

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