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[Fe] Still mixed up, androgenously speaking

T

ThatGirl

Guest
A lot of the guys that I talk to say that they want a well rounded girl that can hang with the guys and still be a lady. I get this. I am the type of girl who will jump off the pier at the ocean, kick back and hold my own in a group full of guys, and still get in my cocktail dress and heels to go out dancing at night. Here is the thing, I have a tendency to make a man feel like less of a man. This is not my intention. I either send men running for the hills after the slaughter of their ego or get guys that are really feeley and naturaly submissive.
If guys want that all around woman then why are they intimidated when confronted by it? Or, did I somehow get it wrong? Do guys want women to be all feeley on the outside then tough on the inside? If so, how do you get in touch with your Fe? Fe can be repulsive to me at times. Any advice or insight?

Ive been here for a while now and think you may have gotten more of a feel for my personality.

I would like to revisit this thread and see if anyone has any further insight for me. I was once again confronted by a gentalman who gave his number to me but not first without telling me that I can really put men off. This was only during a three min conversation. What can I do to be more.....socially accurate?

P.S. he still gave me his number I didn't ask for it
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
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INTP
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Congratulations! You've been moved upgraded to Personal Threads! :hi:

On second thought, I'm just going to split the last post into a new thread and retitle it.
 

Mempy

Mamma said knock you out
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
2,227
It's a good title. It caught my attention.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
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Aug 28, 2008
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8
I was trying to think on your post a bit.. I tend to be the same way. I dress like a girl when appropriate, and I don't have as much trouble (anymore) being in a girly environment with said girls. I also enjoy just as much sitting around with all my guy friends, and doing the things I do everyday.

I ALSO tend to attract very submissive men, that aren't capable of just being themselves and enjoying the atmosphere for what it is.

Personally, I think that men tend to complain about what they don't have, whether they want it or not. (I do this sometimes, even though I lack manparts..) They want to be the man in every situation, or not at all it seems to me. I'm sure this isn't true with everything, but here's my dating life: Submissive coward, clingy dependency, girly-acting slob, clingy-to-teh-extremez. All seemed like awesome guys when we were friends, went loopy when they realized what they were getting into.

I hope we find ourselves a real man capable of handling a real woman someday *^-~*.
 

Oleander

New member
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Sep 30, 2008
Messages
86
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INFP
There's a lot of women are quite sensible with male work colleagues but turn themselves into air-head bimboes to attract a man and forever complain both that men want air-head bimboes and that men don't respect them as competent individuals - but never consider the men who do respect them equally as potential mates.

The same projected sexism is true of a lot of men. They believe that women expect them to take charge or else to be submissive and most porn and feminist writing that gets the most exposure backs this up.

Then there are the women who feel they have to out-macho the men instead of being themselves and sometimes criticising men and standing up that women do some things better. A lot like this call themselves 'feminist' and start to foam at the mouth at any man sugggesting that men might have just got it wrong and would be better off being more like women. Because we have such a strongly macho-skewed society that so often promotes ideas of anything thought traditionally feminine 'inferior' to traditionally masculine it's kind of inevitable that few men will risk women seeing them as something women are taught to despise even in themselves and of those few, most will grow up learning that the world, and especially girls, think of them as gay and self-excluded from relationships with girls and later women.

We do not have a sexually equal society. We have one that regards what were old masculine values as superior to what were feminine and applies them to both sexes. So while it is fine and often preferable for women to copy men, just the fact that they find it preferable makes it much harder for men to contemplate copying the femininity those women reject without seeing it as submissive and 'de-manned' when the women are 'manning up' instead of just plain gentle and loving and caring, all things that women are too often taught to despise as 'traditional submission' to the Mighty Male in themselves, so completely unexpected in what they have been taught to believe men are.
 

LadyJaye

Scream down the boulevard
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
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so/sx
Don't stop being yourself. If the guys you're around can't deal with it, then too bad. I know that sounds overly simplistic, but after dealing with years and years of men telling me I'm fantastic, and then starting up with the "being overwhelmed" garbage the minute we date, I've pared it down to that. I used to analyze my behavior into the ground, constantly asking myself if I was too forceful/too submissive/too pretty/too ugly/too smart/too stupid. It's a waste of time. If you're improving yourself for yourself, then that's all you can do. Trying to assuage the feelings of a guy who's feeling stopped short by you isn't your problem. You can only be responsible for yourself.
 

Oleander

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86
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I don't htink INFPs have 'dates'. We have Friends. Some of those friends we make love with, some we don't, but we can't manage going together with or without sex when the feeling for the person is not there. At best, we are available to any who like and want us but we're not going to be doing the pushing.
 

phoenix13

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Don't stop being yourself. If the guys you're around can't deal with it, then too bad. I know that sounds overly simplistic, but after dealing with years and years of men telling me I'm fantastic, and then starting up with the "being overwhelmed" garbage the minute we date, I've pared it down to that. I used to analyze my behavior into the ground, constantly asking myself if I was too forceful/too submissive/too pretty/too ugly/too smart/too stupid. It's a waste of time. If you're improving yourself for yourself, then that's all you can do. Trying to assuage the feelings of a guy who's feeling stopped short by you isn't your problem. You can only be responsible for yourself.

Oh, the woman speaks truth. Heed her words Thatgirl! You should also be aware of a phenomenon where you try to be what you're not and think you're fooling people, but you're actually just being yourself. Don't even bother. Be who you are... 'cause that's what you'll be anyway.
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
Im thinking that a three min conversation with a guy where he tells me blatatly, "You can really put a guy off" isnt exactly what happenes to every girl. Im not saying men are justified, only that I dont like the pattern. If I dont like the pattern, fix it.

But fearing the bait and switch, I have decided I will most deffinatley become the neighborhood witch lady. You know the one, she gardens at two o clock in the morning. By day she yells, "Balls in my yard!, My ball now!", and turns to put the ball in her collection cabinet of social interaction so she can revel in it at will. "Haha, remember the time that ball came in my yard?" *laughs to herself* "That was funny wasnt it"
While the kids stare through the windows tring to peek at her voodoo.


LOL, see drunk thread *big smile*
 

Anja

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May 2, 2008
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Yay, Lady Jaye and phoenix! 'sall we can do. Anything else robs us of personal satisfaction.

When I was a kid I was a tomboy. I liked the sense of competition and freedom from the social intricacies of my female peers.

I think when I hit my teen years I was confused for quite awhile about young men's responses to my sometimes rowdiness and an amount of aggression.

Eventually I started to figure out that being anything other than who I am was exhausting. Besides it gets pretty confusing if you're hanging out with your tomboy pals and then the dude you have eyes for walks in the room. You can't exactly transform into something else without your pals looking askance. Heh.

I think INFPs might do this quite a bit in their youth because as I type that one brought back a few uncomfortable memories!

But, in regards to changing one's pattern of interaction, I think that is a useful thing to try at a certain age. Sometimes we are trying on different personas untill we get a good fit. That's all good.

And I hope you can do this unhindered by other's reactions, cuz it's not them, I hope, that you are trying to make the changes for.

All easier said than done. Just like RL!
 

karenk

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a three min conversation with a guy where he tells me blatatly, "You can really put a guy off"

That comment would likely end my interest - especially since you just met anyway. Sounds like a closed mind. I would see it as a way to sift through those types.
 

Oleander

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Sep 30, 2008
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Which makes me wonder why anybody goes in for speed dating. Why not just the Marquis de Sade's idea of brothels where you could do anything with anybody paid for by anybody doing anything with you? The only thing I could learn from speed dating (if it were forced) is that the ones who aren't good at it are probably worth knowing.

I think the image of the sexes reverses the reality. Girls have traditionally grown up feeling that they are very much in charge to decide if what boys offer them is good enough. They may want to show other girls that they have the right stuff to attract, but that is to put one over the girls, not because they really care whether they have a boy or not. In recent times they've been taught to return to feeling that belonging and feeling are restrictive. Boys never admit it, but belonging and freedom to show feelings without being laughed at is what a lot have always wanted. Deep down, a woman always knows that her need to love and be loved can be met from the child of her own body. A man depends on a woman's conscious choice regardless of how he feels about her. He needs to compete in wooing (buying) her, she has no need of him.
 

Gamine

in-game
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Anyone with self-esteem issues (overly macho or strangely passive) is going to be threatened by any behaviour or pattern you show because they lack the ability to appreciate another person's identity when they are so confused and insecure within themselves.

The last thing you want is someone who wants to tame you or someone who is so passive they continually grow in their resentment towards you for being "more" than them.

Be yourself ThatGirl! :) Someone with emotional maturity will happen..... eventually.
 

The Chase

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Nov 22, 2008
Messages
27
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I think it's all a matter of taste. ENTP's and ISTJ's are among my favorites people to date. They have this awkward way of flirting that I find adorable. So they aren't your classic girly girls... but that doesn't make them any less special.

A woman who can keep up with me in a battle of wits... who will call me out on my bluff... and keep me on my toes... well that's a woman who is just hot.

To be honest though, as much as I love them, they kicked my ass when I was in my twenties.

Anyways, don't change. You are awesome just the way that you are.
 
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