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  1. #51
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I had an epiphany. You, being NF, tell me how accurate it is. I don't have much to say of it other than:

    It doesn't seem NFs are built for an environment in which news of the wicked can reach them from anywhere on the globe without hindrance.

    Add: This is not criticism in any way, shape or form, only an attempt to better understand the NFs relation to the world.
    That epiphany is incredibly loaded. The most basic thing I can suggest is "Ask, don't tell" e.g. ask NFs how they deal with the harsh realities of life. Then ask SFs or other types to see how they deal so you'll have a basis for comparison to see if your theory is true. Can you explain what you mean when you say hindrance? I'm not really sure what information you expect to get back that will confirm or deny what you think. I'd guess I'd wonder how all types deal and then sort to see if there are anything specific to the way NFs cope.

    BAH, MBTI as it's commonly presented is losing it's appeal. I don't even know if I can blame you for asking your question like you did. There are some threads around here asking NFs are they hypersensitive and the consensus was yes, and are they super intense and the consensus was yes, so I guess it's not surprising that you'd ask this question, which is why I think threads like that do more harm than good. I think people are so caught up in forcing themselves into the stereotypical NF mold that they just sound silly, so yeah the more I think about it the more your question makes sense.

    For me, I've never thought of myself as one who needs to be shielded from the thorns of life. In fact, I'm pretty disdainful of people who run around muttering platitudes like "it's going to be OK!" and blindly skip around sniffing roses going on and on about sunsets.

    Life is real, people have real problems and living in a fantasy hardly helps people cope with the realities of life. I'm not ethereal and shimmery. I'm a tangible person (maybe that makes me not an NF??). If NFs are supposedly skilled in coaching, teaching, counseling, and communicating then I'd think the ability to cope with the harsh realities of life is somewhat of a prerequisite. But I think that's a prerequisite for anyone who wants to lead a healthy life.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #52
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    ^Will respond via PM. Have added that which may be of general interest:

    "Hindrance" refers to the data. Through most of human history, people have not had easy access to information outside their direct observation. Things have changed, which is the subject of my contemplation. I have noticed behavior which alludes to perturberance in NFs, less so in other types.

    I am the last person to become caught up in a trend-of-stereotype. I've been studying types for a long time, and my hypotheses are ultimately based on my own observations.

    I don't believe people usually force themselves into molds, nor should they. People don't follow rules, they act based on their motivations, and how they act allows them to potentially be classified and studied. Tendencies of those in a classification can be noticed and discussed.

    Hence, this discussion, which was intended not only to gain feedback for myself, but to provide for NFs' contemplation of their own psyches.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    As someone who carries a good ability to identify with other people and feels intensely, I have learned that a steady diet of unpleasant news is not mentally healthy. But I don't imagine it would be healthy for any healthy person.

    It's something I've thought about. Is the world going to hell in a handbasket or did we prairie folk just think we had good neighbors because they were so far away we couldn't hear them beating their kids?

    At any rate, I think many other types get irritated by the steady stream of bad news which is so readily available all around us. I've learned to limit my intake of the daily horrors to maintain a positive spirit.

    Those who read the election news, economic news, whatever, constantly, tend to be the ones going off on preoccupied rants. It does have an effect on all personality types, I think. TMI, too much stimulation, too much sorrow = unhappiness and distress for the consumer. Or in the case of sociopathic types who feed off it, disastrous results for the public in general.

    There's an unoffended NF's perspective.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #54
    Senior Member Bella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I guess, if all you wanted was to bash NFs and make yourself feel superior. But I think that shtick is getting old.
    The Moderator sure is rude to people.........
    yesiknowimamiserablegrouchnowgoawayovmeleor

    It's Mizzz ST, thank you...

  5. #55
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bella View Post
    The Moderator sure is rude to people.........
    It's only rude if it isn't warranted.

  6. #56
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Exactly. Before the information age, news was filtered a great deal more, to a greater degree the farther we go back in time.
    This is why I rarely watch TV news. There's so much I really can do nothing about, so I'm okay with a little blissful ignorance.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #57
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    Sometimes I'm sensitive to everything.
    Sometimes not caring is a good coping strategy.
    Sometimes I just don't care.

    and sometimes I think 'wicked' is natural.
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I've been thinking overnight about this issue in a broader way. Thinking about locus of control. Everywhere I look on the board I see threads complaining about something/someone in one's environment.

    We are all very much affected by the people around us and their acts. If one has not developed an internal locus of control it is easy to feel at loss, manipulated by things we have no control over.

    And, it being an obvious fact that there is very little personal control a person has over their environment in general, it seems important to me for a person to understand that and to focus on themselves and their reactions in order to live in a sane and satisfying manner.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #59
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Illustration?

    Everything's going to hell all around me, but I'm just fine, thank you.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #60
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I've been thinking overnight about this issue in a broader way. Thinking about locus of control. Everywhere I look on the board I see threads complaining about something/someone in one's environment.

    We are all very much affected by the people around us and their acts. If one has not developed an internal locus of control it is easy to feel at loss, manipulated by things we have no control over.

    And, it being an obvious fact that there is very little personal control a person has over their environment in general, it seems important to me for a person to understand that and to focus on themselves and their reactions in order to live in a sane and satisfying manner.
    Excellent point although I disagree on one small thing. I too noticed a while ago that most people on the forum seem to feel that they have little control over their environment. They feel like it acts (usually unwelcome encroaching) upon instead of them trying to act upon it. There's a thread right now about controlling people and situations. When I see things like this I try to think about them in as neutral way as possible. All of us need to exert some control outside of ourselves and towards our environment. If only for the basic need to have some comfortable space that we can have to ourselves. I don't believe we don't have control over our environment. Some people only feel comfortable exerting the control in smaller spheres whereas other feel comfortable exerting that over larger areas. It seems like to me that many folks here don't like to try and influence their environment but there are high levels of resentment towards their environment and the people that inhabit it. They don't want to push out or when they do it comes out in uncontrollable spews. And they resent people who do because they think they're going to gobble them up or something. Personally, I don't have a problem with people trying to influence me because I know that ultimately I'll choose my programming and I should choose wisely. The reason I think we choose our programming is exactly what you just said. We're all bombarded by messages from the outside world. There's no way we can keep it from seeping inside of us, influencing us unconsciously or subconsciously. So what I can do is figure out what information I want to give preferential treatment.

    It's like when someone says someone is manipulative. Instinctually we react to someone being manipulative in a negative way. But I'm starting to look at manipulation in a strictly denotative way. I personally don't have a problem when I push out against my environment and conversely I don't have much of a problem when my environment pushes back out at me. I usually don't feel like it's going to consume me. When it pushes out against me I feel that in most situations I can push back out at it. There are times when it exerts itself on me that I don't feel like I can do anything about it. I guess then it boils down to how can I handle those times when I can't do anything, so basically coping mechanisms.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

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