[MBTI General] ENFP Anti Weakness

[Rachelinpa]

Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

Thoughts?

 

[Jack Flak]

I have noticed that women want men to be "men," regardless of type.

 

[Rachelinpa]

Yeah, but why?

 

[ajblaise]

I think some girls prefer weaker guys because they like to be the ones in control. Maybe some ENTJ girls are like this.

 

[Rachelinpa]

Weaker guys are usually nicer guys, I find. But, I just get so annoyed with the weakness that it trumps how nice they are! To me, it seems to go along with why nice guys finish last. It's not just that they're nice, it's that they're weak!

 

[Jack Flak]

Yeah, but why?

Let me know when you find out, also the meaning of life.

 

[phoenix13]

Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

Thoughts?

I have no clue why that rubbed you the wrong way... he needed directions. How is that weak? How the hell is he supposed to "figure it out" without a friggin' map? Is it that men aren't supposed to ask for directions? That's bull.

I understand you not wanting people to be dependent on you, or not self-sufficient... but the "embarassment on their behalf" is something I don't experience.

Concerning the "gushy" part... I LOVE men who are expressive. I love it and admire it. It shows a detachment from social norms that takes confidence and self-acceptance.

To sum it up, it sounds like (I'm not positive here) your reaction is a combination of your hatred for dependence and imprinting of what is and isn't acceptable for a man to do. The former is cool. The later isn't IMO.

 

[ajblaise]

I have no clue why that rubbed you the wrong way... he needed directions. How is that weak? How the hell is he supposed to "figure it out" without a friggin' map? Is it that men aren't supposed to ask for directions? That's bull.

I think she was turned off by that fact the he she said he sounded like a bitch about being lost, not just the fact that he got lost and needed directions.

 

[Rachelinpa]

Right?! I know! It was completely unreasonable for me to feel so invaded and irritated with giving him directions, but... I was. Maybe it was how he asked for it. I'm not sure.

Interesting though. Yeah, I think it's mostly the dependence factor. I only gave you a small glimpse of how he is, so my issue is probably more contextual than explained. Hm.

 

[Moiety]

You're weird

 

[Rachelinpa]

You're weird

Strikingly odd or unusual... definitely.

 

[Jack Flak]

Did you just look up "weird" in the dictionary? Now that's weird.

 

[Rachelinpa]

I can't help it.

 

[BlownAway]

I'm usually annoyed with "weakness" in men I'm dating because I'm "weak" in a sense myself..or sensitive and emotional might be a better expression. I don't like this side of myself, and therefore I don't want a partner to show this side either. He should be strong where I'm weak and the opposite. But when it comes to men in general and women, I don't care.

I think that when you're annoyed with something and really don't know why..it can be some undefined inner value? Something that comes from early childhood..? Maybe the men in your family are very selfsufficient and independent?

 

[INA]

Right?! I know! It was completely unreasonable for me to feel so invaded and irritated with giving him directions, but... I was. Maybe it was how he asked for it. I'm not sure.

That's what I thought, too, when I read

He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something?

You seem the type to have preferred him to order you, "Do me a favor, sweetcheeks."
The funny thing is that guys can get fearful if they know you're the type to be judgmental about perceived chinks in their armor of masculinity, so it's a deadly cycle because then they are less sure of themselves, further incurring your disgust.

 

[Rachelinpa]

That's what I thought, too, when I read

You seem the type to have preferred him to order you "Do me a favor, sweetcheeks."
The funny thing is that guys can get fearful if they know you're the type to be judgmental about perceived chinks in their armor of masculinity, so it's a deadly cycle because they are less sure of themselves, further incurring your disgust.

Wow, that's so insightful! Makes a lot of sense.

Although, I think in this particular case the fear the guy had was unrelated to me. I haven't exactly let on that it annoys me. I usually give leeway for people to be themselves because it usually is my favorite thing (to provide them that safety), but at the same time it sometimes means putting up with or ignoring what secretly annoys me (recognizing the benefit of authenticity). Well, that is, until of course it gets to that point where I need to say something. I don't think my annoyance is necessarily justified.

 

[INA]

Wow, that's so insightful! Makes a lot of sense.

Although, I think in this particular case the fear the guy had was unrelated to me. I haven't exactly let on that it annoys me. I usually give leeway for people to be themselves because it usually is my favorite thing (to provide them that safety), but at the same time it sometimes means putting up with or ignoring what secretly annoys me (recognizing the benefit of authenticity). Well, that is, until of course it gets to that point where I need to say something. I don't think my annoyance is necessarily justified.

Ah. But careful that you are not leaking how you feel without knowing it. Nonverbal cues can betray you. If he's anything like the ISFPs I know, you won't need to do much of anything to let on, because ISFPs can be very perceptive of others' attitudes.

 

[substitute]

I dunno, it doesn't sound to me like much to do with gender at all... it's just general annoyance that somebody refuses to stand on their own two feet. I'd feel the same way. If someone asks for help with something that they really do need help with I'm all for it and happy to help. But if people ask for help just because they're lazy, even though they have all they need to do whatever it is by themselves, I just tend to want to grab them by the lapels, shake them and shout "DRY THE FUCK UP!" into their face.

Like Bjork said in the song...
YouTube - Bjork - Army Of Me

 

[ajblaise]

I dunno, it doesn't sound to me like much to do with gender at all... it's just general annoyance that somebody refuses to stand on their own two feet.

I think males are a lot more likely to tolerate that behavior in females than vice versa.

 

[substitute]

...actually it's also, in me, a feeling like they're just taking the piss, taking total liberties with your time and goodwill. Like you've got nothing better to do with your time than do stuff for them that they could do for themselves. In fact yeah it makes me totally mad when people do this to me. Especially if they're asking me to help them get to where I'm already gonna be doing them a favour.

If I'm asking somebody to go somewhere for me, and there's nothing in it for them, I can appreciate their pragmatic sorta "well, you do the legwork then and I'll just show up" attitude. I can understand it, so I'll do the legwork. But that's not the same as just being a wet blanket.

And if somebody has say, complained to me that they're all alone and I've said well okay come over to my place and we can talk about it - I've already offered them my time and resources to help them out, it just feels like they're trying it on if they then add that I've got to practically hold their hand all the way to my front door.

I prefer to meet people half way, and I tend to feel more inclined to help people whom I can see are helping themselves, at least trying. People who think they can just wimp out and be pathetic and expect puppy eyes to get them through life just irritate the fuck outta me. Whatever their gender.