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  1. #41
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I also don't like how the term 'weakness' is thrown around so easily. It needs defining. Otherwise, I just take the value of 'weak' which to me automatically means 'wrong', 'inferior', 'loser' -- and I kinda think that's what you meant.
    I totally agree.

    As I originally said:

    I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.
    The quotations were intentional because I didn't really agree with my own choice of wording in the first place. I just couldn't think of a simple way to explain. Gratefully, I think most of you understood the meaning behind my words.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuent View Post
    You know what's weak? Bashing other people for being like this but accepting it in yourself.
    Hm. Sorry if you misunderstood me. It wasn't intended as a deliberate attack. I was mostly expressing frustration and seeking understanding. Admittedly, my exasperation was potentially unwarranted.

    And, I don't accept it in myself.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Simple. You want a challenge and a "nice" guy to you is in appearance not one. So I guess the question is what is a "tough" guy who isn't a straight up "asshole?" See that is the question women I find get stuck with.

    Not all their fault, men themselves have identity issues, caused honestly as a side effect of the feminist movement. Sensitivity is great but it goes against instinct, so men are not being men. Strange isn't it? Don't get me wrong, the feminist movement had some important improvements, it just pushed on men too hard and too far to the "nice" guy section and based the "gentlemen" section of the evolutionary scale.

  4. #44
    Member BlownAway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betterthandead View Post
    This is type oriented for ENFPs. Despite their outward zest and appeal for emotional outpourings they would like someone who is solid yet not dependent on them.

    ENFPs like to advise and help someone but not so much as doing the actual task they just like suggesting in words. ENFPs I believe also prefer to have their own space which people who fall for the ENFP's "ways" become surprised to figure this one out. I've known ENFPs who would be enthusiastic about being friends or dating a person only to find themselves wanting to leave them if the other person seems "dependent" on them or tries to control the ENFP.

    ENFP women have it a lot easier than ENFP men. So if you're a woman, go sit back and shut up.
    Oh so true!! There's nothing more horrible than when someone becomes dependent or controlling! Lack of freedok does not appeal to ENFP:s.. And therefore we're sensitive for "weaknesses".. Maybe we're afraid that dependent people will "draw" the energy and zest out of us? I can take most things, just not emotional vampires! And the smallest, tiniest hint that someone might be just that, makes me leave faster than fast. However, I don't think it's worse for male ENFP:s. Why would it be?

  5. #45
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I came across this explanation of 'introverted ethics' (socionics equivalent of Fi) as a secondary function...

    The individual is very adept at perceiving, establishing, and maintaining personal bonds between people. However, these bonds are often perceived as being situational and flexible rather than static. The individual is inclined to focus on establishing personal bonds with other people in the context of realizing or following perceptions from his base function.

    The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance, but these sentiments are situational rather than an expression of permanent feelings. If the person's mood or external situation changes, he or she may "turn off" the feelings instantly, even forgetting whom they had created the feeling of kinship with.
    Perhaps, if Fi is subservient to Ne, then the need for this bond being situational is what leads ENFP's to this strong aversion to people being emotionally dependent on them. The ENFP needs to know that if they want/have to move on, this person can cope without them. To feel anchored as it were, would stifle Ne.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Alpha Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

    Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

    I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

    For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

    Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

    Thoughts?
    This has nothing to do with being an ENFP. It's about "Silent Power":

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Wilde, in "Silent Power"
    When you lean psychologically or emotionally on people or toward them, itís a sure sign of insecurity. It makes others feel uncomfortable. They resent the weight you are laying on them, and they will react by denying you. They donít like your self-indulgence, and your insecurity reminds them of their own vulnerability; it rattles them.
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  7. #47
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

    Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

    I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

    For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

    Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

    Thoughts?
    I don't know if this will help or not but my INFP sister hates it when she thinks people want pity, and she doesn't give pity, and she doesn't want anybody giving her any pity either.
    The problem is that she confuses pity with compassion. It's too bad.
    She wants people to validate her feelings though, but she hates, "Poor you."

  8. #48
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

    Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

    I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

    For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

    Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

    Thoughts?
    You are simply following your instincts to select for an alpha male. And this is obviously a gender thing, not a type thing.

  9. #49
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    that's just unpleasant and unsympathetic, and rather than admit to it you dress it up as someone else's "weakness". projection.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Dwigie's Avatar
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    I think everyone does this to some extent, I don't really think I can judge you ...No it's not something to be proud of though, but we all do it:projection. Sometimes it's not even conscious, we may hate something very much without really knowing why at first and with just a little detachment you can see a situation a bit more objectively. But why exactly can't you accept your own weaknesses? Since you said you couldn't accept his weaknesses because they reminded you of your own right? What's so repulsive about needing help and someone to lean on ?(I hope you'll read this in the sympathetic tone intended. because I just re-read it and it could be taken the wrong way...)
    Maybe you could try and think about why you cannot accept weakness, in yourself and others?
    Sometimes I feel like I'm "on Mercury"-

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