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[MBTI General] ENFP Anti Weakness

Rachelinpa

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
878
MBTI Type
ENFP
I also don't like how the term 'weakness' is thrown around so easily. It needs defining. Otherwise, I just take the value of 'weak' which to me automatically means 'wrong', 'inferior', 'loser' -- and I kinda think that's what you meant.

I totally agree.

As I originally said:

I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

The quotations were intentional because I didn't really agree with my own choice of wording in the first place. I just couldn't think of a simple way to explain. Gratefully, I think most of you understood the meaning behind my words.
 

Rachelinpa

New member
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
878
MBTI Type
ENFP
You know what's weak? Bashing other people for being like this but accepting it in yourself.

Hm. Sorry if you misunderstood me. It wasn't intended as a deliberate attack. I was mostly expressing frustration and seeking understanding. Admittedly, my exasperation was potentially unwarranted.

And, I don't accept it in myself.
 

Maabus1999

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
528
MBTI Type
INTJ
Simple. You want a challenge and a "nice" guy to you is in appearance not one. So I guess the question is what is a "tough" guy who isn't a straight up "asshole?" See that is the question women I find get stuck with.

Not all their fault, men themselves have identity issues, caused honestly as a side effect of the feminist movement. Sensitivity is great but it goes against instinct, so men are not being men. Strange isn't it? Don't get me wrong, the feminist movement had some important improvements, it just pushed on men too hard and too far to the "nice" guy section and based the "gentlemen" section of the evolutionary scale.
 

BlownAway

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
41
MBTI Type
ENFP
This is type oriented for ENFPs. Despite their outward zest and appeal for emotional outpourings they would like someone who is solid yet not dependent on them.

ENFPs like to advise and help someone but not so much as doing the actual task they just like suggesting in words. ENFPs I believe also prefer to have their own space which people who fall for the ENFP's "ways" become surprised to figure this one out. I've known ENFPs who would be enthusiastic about being friends or dating a person only to find themselves wanting to leave them if the other person seems "dependent" on them or tries to control the ENFP.

ENFP women have it a lot easier than ENFP men. So if you're a woman, go sit back and shut up.

Oh so true!! There's nothing more horrible than when someone becomes dependent or controlling! Lack of freedok does not appeal to ENFP:s.. And therefore we're sensitive for "weaknesses".. Maybe we're afraid that dependent people will "draw" the energy and zest out of us? I can take most things, just not emotional vampires! And the smallest, tiniest hint that someone might be just that, makes me leave faster than fast. However, I don't think it's worse for male ENFP:s. Why would it be?
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
I came across this explanation of 'introverted ethics' (socionics equivalent of Fi) as a secondary function...

The individual is very adept at perceiving, establishing, and maintaining personal bonds between people. However, these bonds are often perceived as being situational and flexible rather than static. The individual is inclined to focus on establishing personal bonds with other people in the context of realizing or following perceptions from his base function.

The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance, but these sentiments are situational rather than an expression of permanent feelings. If the person's mood or external situation changes, he or she may "turn off" the feelings instantly, even forgetting whom they had created the feeling of kinship with.

Perhaps, if Fi is subservient to Ne, then the need for this bond being situational is what leads ENFP's to this strong aversion to people being emotionally dependent on them. The ENFP needs to know that if they want/have to move on, this person can cope without them. To feel anchored as it were, would stifle Ne.
 

Alpha Prime

New member
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
250
MBTI Type
XXXX
Enneagram
XXXX
Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

Thoughts?

This has nothing to do with being an ENFP. It's about "Silent Power":

Stuart Wilde said:
When you lean psychologically or emotionally on people or toward them, it’s a sure sign of insecurity. It makes others feel uncomfortable. They resent the weight you are laying on them, and they will react by denying you. They don’t like your self-indulgence, and your insecurity reminds them of their own vulnerability; it rattles them.

Read the book. It is among the best you will ever read!
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

Thoughts?
I don't know if this will help or not but my INFP sister hates it when she thinks people want pity, and she doesn't give pity, and she doesn't want anybody giving her any pity either.
The problem is that she confuses pity with compassion. It's too bad.
She wants people to validate her feelings though, but she hates, "Poor you."
 

Giggly

No moss growing on me
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
9,661
MBTI Type
iSFj
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Ok, I'm not sure what I'm asking here, so you can answer how you want.

Basically, I've noticed that I (female ENFP) get annoyed with guys (not so much girls) that are weak. Like, it almost embarasses me on their behalf. You know, I want them to be sensitive, but I don't want them to be too sensitive. I want them to be able to take care of themselves and not get all dependent and gushy at me.

I think it is "weakness" that bugs me, but I'm not sure.

For example, my guy friend (ISFP) calls me from the road on his way to visit me this weekend. It's like a 3 hour trip and he's been to my house before, but for whatever reason he got lost. He (almost fearfully) says to me, "Don't you have a map or something? I think you're going to need to mapquest this for me."

Now, I can't place my own emotion, but for some reason this rubs me the wrong way. I'm not annoyed that he's asking for help (because ordinarily I love helping people), but kind of! I'm annoyed, but I can't figure out why. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but I feel like, ok dude, what do you really want me to do here? Figure it out yourself. Don't be such a baby. Ugh.

Thoughts?

You are simply following your instincts to select for an alpha male. And this is obviously a gender thing, not a type thing.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
that's just unpleasant and unsympathetic, and rather than admit to it you dress it up as someone else's "weakness". projection.
 

Dwigie

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Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
658
MBTI Type
INFP
I think everyone does this to some extent, I don't really think I can judge you ...No it's not something to be proud of though, but we all do it:projection. Sometimes it's not even conscious, we may hate something very much without really knowing why at first and with just a little detachment you can see a situation a bit more objectively. But why exactly can't you accept your own weaknesses? Since you said you couldn't accept his weaknesses because they reminded you of your own right? What's so repulsive about needing help and someone to lean on ?(I hope you'll read this in the sympathetic tone intended. because I just re-read it and it could be taken the wrong way...)
Maybe you could try and think about why you cannot accept weakness, in yourself and others?
 

substitute

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May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
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ENTP
Nobody see any merit in my theory earlier then?
Or is it just something an NF wouldn't want to dwell on... the idea that every friendship they get into, they're keeping an eye on the door for when they get bored of it? ;)
 

INTJMom

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Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
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INTJ
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5w4
I came across this explanation of 'introverted ethics' (socionics equivalent of Fi) as a secondary function...

Perhaps, if Fi is subservient to Ne, then the need for this bond being situational is what leads ENFP's to this strong aversion to people being emotionally dependent on them. The ENFP needs to know that if they want/have to move on, this person can cope without them. To feel anchored as it were, would stifle Ne.
That's probably what it is.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
8
Yeah, but why?

Because we don't want another pussy, we already have one.

If a guy acts more girly and flitty than I do, it's a bigger turn off than almost anything save lack-of-hygiene.
 

kyuuei

Emperor/Dictator
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
13,964
MBTI Type
enfp
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8
How could he use mapquest if he's in his car? And I don't think many guys would say "Oh my girlfriend is so weak!" if she called and asked for directions and was a little worried.

It wasn't the directions. It's what we as women pick up when we see a guy all worried and falling to pieces over something as retarded as getting lost. If he handles it that way over small stuff.. we instantly think "If we were together, and we had a disaster, how would he be? What if I can't handle it myself? I need that support and it might not be there!!" .. It might be a silly way of thinking since I've felt that way about men I had no intentions of dating anyways, but the same is with friends. How can you rely on a friend that's suppose to be your support when they're actually a tower of marshmallows instead of rocks?
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
I didn't read the whole thread, in regards to the op:


Would it have been as bad if he said, "I don't know how I got lost but I tried this and this and I seem to be here but I can't get back to there, any ideas?"

I have much of the same issue with men, but it is less that they need help, everybody needs help sometimes, than it is that I was their first idea.

What I mean by that is that men need to be capable of figuring things out. A guy who takes a dive and looks to you to find all the solutions for every little problem is unnattractive. If he has exausted all of his own solutions and still has no answer that's different.

While I admire a man who can solve problems efficiently, I don't want to be their strategy. It shows lazyness and dependance on other people.
 

dorareever

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
60
MBTI Type
INFP
Weakness is in the eye of the beholder. if my boyfriend got lost that way I would find it endearing. :wubbie:

I suppose that I like men who could be called "weak"=emotional/artsy types, but I don't see that as weakness. I almost never use the word weak if not towards some sociopathic types afraid of their emotions , who bully others, and can't deal with parts of life they don't understand. oh and whiners. but they are often the one and the same.

I like a mix of weak and strong in a man. I HATE HATE HATE the protective macho man who thinks he's always right and that he has to protect you. But I like some out-of-control testosterone in him as well. :D I like cuddly beasts, basically. ;)
 

Reisende

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
6
MBTI Type
ENXP
OK, so I have read much of what was said. I have had some people call me weak, for not being able to find my own way through things. But here is my problem: I have two BS's (engineering and ecology) but still I can't find a job, let alone a career; I have done and continue to do social things and I still can't seem to make friends who want to do things with me; and despite being on a few other social websites I can't land a single date (I barely get anything). I really am a great guy by all accounts. But do to the total lack of successes I often feel like a failure and it’s that feeling that annoys people. Now, to me, I am not weak; for from it. I do all I can, but I still can’t get anywhere in my life. That would be frustrating and also disillusioning for anyone.
Do I qualify as weak to anyone? Or normal?
 
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