User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 87

  1. #11
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Meh. My INTP spouse and I both experience reality as a harsh unpleasantness and neither of us seem to really have the advantage over the other in dealing with it. We both just sort of limp along out in the world and come home to hide with our books and computers. And each other. We're pretty certain we are the only two reasonable people in the whole, insane world.

    Go away reality! Nobody wants you!
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    I'm aware of the difference between reality (if by reality you mean what the senses perceive) and imagination. I can even survive in reality. But I prefer fantasy and spend most of my time there, even valuing it more. It brings me more interesting things than reality, so why not?

    Just because it's "reality" doesn't mean it's the most important thing, and should occupy my thoughts at all times. Reality is important and deserves to be considered in many situations, but it's hardly the most important thing. I think you overestimate its value.

    Human beings have imaginations. The things I see in my inner world are relevant when seen in terms of how people process reality. Not everything I see reflects current reality, but much of what isn't current reflects a potential reality (or theory about it), or at least symbolizes it. You would be surprised how useful this can be in many cases.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    But I prefer fantasy and spend most of my time there, even valuing it more. It brings me more interesting things than reality, so why not?
    I don't understand the concept of "living in a fantasy world". Can you provide examples?

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    693

    Default

    Bluewing you don't really box people so simplistically based off definitions do you? I mean seriously aren't we all learning as we go and making adjustments where needed?

  5. #15
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Bluewing you don't really box people so simplistically based off definitions do you? I mean seriously aren't we all learning as we go and making adjustments where needed?
    ????????????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    Oh well... I can see these problems, but it seems a little bit exaggerated to me. I have read some excerpts of Schopenhauer, and I think he has some interesting points (I didn't even know he was INFJ, by the way). What worries me about Dostoyevsky is the nationalism rather than the religious language. Remember that almost all people were religious at that time, not just Fs or INFJs. Religion in the past has always "made sense". So I don't think you can say that Dostoyevsky would have needed to spend more time with his T, and then everything would have been fine. Also don't neglect the great things many INFJs have done for the world, for example Nelson Mandela, Mohandas Gandhi, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King. And this was probably also Dostoyevsky's aim, to help "save the world", though his compassion might have been narrowed down to "Russians".

    I think the "salvation" for an INFJ lies in Se, if any function. I'm thinking of starting a thread on that some time.

    I think we have to be respectful of each other's MBTI differences, or we could end up thinking "everyone should be my type". BlueWing, you seem to put a high value on logic and "the truth" in a Ti fashion. But an INFJ doesn't value that as highly, yet is often very concerned with the truth on another "wavelength". Also remember that Ni is the ultimate function for thinking outside the box, which I suppose is something you do value.
    Spending more time with his T would have allowed Dostoevsky to break free from religion. Ti would have allowed him to see the world for what it is, irrespectively of whether or not everyone was religious around him.

    Secondly, logical thinking would have pruned away many superstitions within his worldview.

    With regard to Schopenhauer, review this.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...91-post35.html
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    693

    Default

    [QUOTE=BlueWing;319768]????????????????????



    I am not sure what part of the question was confusing to you. Lets try it another way. Do you really think individual human beings so fit with definitions from an unprovable theory that your simplistic view of human behavior deserves much merit? Could it be that your ti is interpreting other people in relation to yourself and not to the way they actually are?

  7. #17
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    [QUOTE=Frank;320342]
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    ????????????????????



    I am not sure what part of the question was confusing to you. Lets try it another way. Do you really think individual human beings so fit with definitions from an unprovable theory that your simplistic view of human behavior deserves much merit. Could it be that your ti is interpreting other people in relation to yourself and not to the way they actually are.
    Do you know the relationship between typology and the individual?

    Specifically to what degree a characterization of the type relates to the personalities that inhere within the type?

    Another distinction you ought to keep in mind is that between type and human behavior. To what degree the two overlap and how they tend to influence one another.

    You should assume those principles of typology by default as they are fundamental to all thought concerning systematic typology.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    I bet my ass, you've forgotten randomness in your equations

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #19
    Senior Member SuperFob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The INFJ has the propensity to be divorced from reality because their perceiving function is introverted. Introversion naturally defines the external environment in terms of how it relates to the self and not how it is in its own right. Thus the external environment is distorted by the internal unconscious predispositions of the INFJ.
    No. Introverted intuition doesn't distort the external environment at all, nor does it fail to 'define the external environment in its own right'. It allows us INFJ's to perceive things in the same way someone would if they were using extroverted intuition, but introverted intuition generates the implications of those things. It shows the possible futures, and it does so from multiple angles. If I come home from school and my dad isn't happy, introverted intuition automatically starts predicting possibilities of why he's pissed off what he'll say next: Did my report card come in with some bad grades? Did I leave the oven on overnight? Did I forget to do something? Now, that's a pretty simple example that doesn't exactly do justice the power of introverted intuition. Any idiot could come up with those possibilities... but it's basically the point. Introverted intuition doesn't typically distort anything more than anything other process would, it simply takes what it perceives and uses it to predict what could happen next in ways that extroverted intuition can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Because it is not restricted by the Judgment of Thinking, not nearly as much as the INTJ type, the INFJ is almost indubitably the most Intuitive type.
    A thing that I tend to be very proud of

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    In this context, however, it is not at all a good thing.
    I'm sorry that your misinterpretation of introverted intuition has led you to believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    As many of the worldviews produced are manifestly a form of madness.
    You're saying that individuals like MLK and Mother Teresa demonstrated
    'madness' with their worldviews? We could use a lot more of it, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    The INFJ shares the attitude of the classical Keirseyan SJ who is profoundly pessimistic about the external world and is very security conscious. Yet in the case of the INFJ such attitude is far more ingenious! In effect they have a very abstract model of 'the whole world is trying to screw me!'.
    Yes, that happens sometimes. During those rare periods of high stress or intensely negative emotion, I have a very negative "screw the whole world" attitude going on in my head. To say that typical INFJ's are like that all the time, though? Nah, that's just another gross misinterpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Another reason for this is Introverted Thinking is also aimed at the subject. Thus there is also an aversion to problems of the external world. Unlike a strong, objective introverted thinking type, the Thinking of the INFJ is underdeveloped. Thus in addition to the persecution mania induced by the abstract vision of Ni a similar vision emerges as a result of malfunctioning Thinking. Thinking is not only negative towards the external world because of introversion, or for the same reason as Intuition, but also because this function in itself is under-developed. Thus it inevitably conjures negative thoughts about the world of impersonal occurences. One is only to imagine how much those could be magnified by the vision of Introverted Intuition.
    I didn't think it was possible, but I think you misinterpreted this facet of the INFJ's even worse than the others. INFJ's (along with INFP's) are considered to be more in tune with the problems of the world than any other type. That's extroverted feeling- the process that best relates to the problems of the rest of the world, mixed with the introverted intuition- the process that allows us to synthesize everything we relate to with extroverted feeling and get a sense of the deepest problems in our environment. INFJ's and INFP's know what it feels like to turn on the news, see all the messed up things happening around us, and feel a burning desire to do something about it. Many of the great world leaders were INFJ's/INFP's for this reason. We, moreso than anyone else, have that innate desire to fight for the cause.

    As for introverted thinking, it isn't a negative process for me. Considering the fact that I'm the most unhealthy INFJ I know, I would say that it isn't negative for most other INFJ's, either. Extraverted sensing may be negative, but introverted thinking isn't. It certainly doesn't have to be negative to the outside world, so that's yet another misinterpretation on your part. After I develop one of my visions of the future, Introverted Thinking adds the rational touch to it. If I meet a girl and we have an amazing romantic connection, introverted intuition will probably map out one possibility of us two dropping out of high school and getting married, introverted thinking will then ask me "Well... that sounds great and all, but how would you guys support yourselves? You two would probably have to wait a while before even considering kids!" It'll do that for every possible future I'll find myself mapping out.

    That includes visions relating to the outside world, too, not in aversion to it. An INFJ can use introverted thinking in a positive way just like an INTP might (not as well or as often, obviously). I think that I put it into good use when I got perfect scores across the board in math for my SAT 1's, SAT 2's, and ACT's.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I suppose one shall request examples of such INFJ insanity.
    According to you, then, INFJ's are the only insane people in the world? Please, let's at least be somewhat reasonable. Insanity can happen to any type, and it will manifest itself differently based on that type. An INFJ may come up with crazy worldviews. An INTP might start looking for excuses and biases that'll paint INFJ's as divorcees from reality

    Let's not try and take two crazy individuals and act like they represent the whole INFJ population, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Extroverted Feeling evokes a feeling of appreciation for ideas that support the vision and a feeling of depreciation for those that do not. Such prejudice has been a powerful weapon to keep the INFJ frozen in their irrational vision.
    Not quite. INFJ's are usually open-minded enough to accept others' opinions. We'll try to persuade them otherwise, but we'll be gracious about it all in the end and without giving up our beliefs. An INFJ sense of extroverted feeling teaches us the importance of respecting other people's views.

    Whenever we come across someone who is clearly biased and is trying to collect incorrect data just so they have something to support their point, we might not be so respectful, however.

    I'm not gonna lie, though, it made me chuckle a bit to see you calling other people irrational after reading your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    You should assume those principles of typology by default as they are fundamental to all thought concerning systematic typology.
    1. You should never try to understand a personality type based on definitions and descriptions from research alone. You can only begin to understand such a personality type by getting to know people who belong to it, but even then, you can only know so much. The only reliable fundamentals to typology are those people who understand a type the most-those who belong to that type.

    2. If you ARE going to rely on principles of INFJ typology, please do a bit more research next time. I wasn't sure if that first post was a joke, but I can't really find another explanation as to how an argument from an introverted thinker could be so biased and contain so many holes. Maybe it's just that negative extroverted feeling kicking in

  10. #20
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Dude you have no idea what you're getting into here. BW understands the functions better than anyone on this site.

    He is totally off base, but that's another matter. His INFJ is a possibility, certainly, but not the norm -- not even close.

    Believe me, he does not misunderstand the functions. He just misunderstands the way the average INFJ's function interaction works.

    It seems you misunderstand the functions, actually.

Similar Threads

  1. How far divorced from books, film, TV and media portrayals is society becoming?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-05-2011, 01:21 AM
  2. [INFJ] INFJs and Single-Mindedness
    By Kiddo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 11-23-2009, 06:39 PM
  3. [INFJ] INFJs and Dating
    By Kiddo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 109
    Last Post: 02-22-2009, 06:42 AM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ and Compliments
    By chippinchunk in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 01-24-2008, 09:20 AM
  5. [INFJ] INFJ and grief
    By tovlo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-21-2007, 06:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO