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  1. #61
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Type be damned, I'd still U.
    But INJs are favorites. I thought the self-absorption was one way in which an INJ may differ from an ENJ.

  2. #62
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    Type be damned, I'd still U.
    Phew *recovers INTJ membership card from the trash bin*

    But INJs are favorites. I thought the self-absorption was one way in which an INJ may differ from an ENJ.
    Dunno, I'd say it's expressed in different ways, I can see it as something I'm capable of and something I've been in the past, mostly in the respect that I have my interests, talk to me about them and you have my attention, talk about something else and you can lose me, it sounds self absorbed to me. Dunno. Too much red wine to really comprehend.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Martian Manifesto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Phew *recovers INTJ membership card from the trash bin*



    Dunno, I'd say it's expressed in different ways, I can see it as something I'm capable of and something I've been in the past, mostly in the respect that I have my interests, talk to me about them and you have my attention, talk about something else and you can lose me, it sounds self absorbed to me. Dunno. Too much red wine to really comprehend.
    I read somewhere that the possitive use of Se for INJs is almost always a BI-PRODUCT of bliss and bliss for INJs comes from their Ni and to a lesser extent Fe or Te. If their Ni is being engaged then their Se can "ride" for long periods of time and do it's thing "riding shotgun". If the INJ's judgement function is engaged...INFJ is enjoying the company of the person, finds their energy "worthy"...INTJ is enjoying the direction of the topic, finds the direction and level "worthy"...in these cases again the Se can "ride" the wave...when Ni+judgement function are engaged then the INJ can do a staggering amount of extremely high quality work/attention to details (subject's or people's). In these situations, AND PRETTY MUCH ONLY THESE SITUATIONS, the Se of the INJ can be of a brilliant and masterful level...

    However, when the Se must go it alone, when there is no pleasant archtypal energy (Dominant & Secondary Functions tend to bring out more Self, Child, Mana, High Anima energy) it needs to get "powered" by some energy...so the only powerful archtypal energy left is the shadow...this would be why when "in the grip" matches up pretty well with stuff that is often "in the shadow" for that type... This will be stressful and avoided. If it can't be avoided then the shadow will give you some energy (low, dark energy) to "handle" things. And the shadow wants the shiet handled in a manner that nobody ever trys to make you do that shiet again. So for INJs the Se is either part of THEIR Bliss-foam or part of THEIR worst-fears. And pretty much NOTHING in between.

    For me, people either need to be expanding/informing my vision (Ni) or have energy that makes me feel good (Fe...usually people I already know and like very much). At these times I can be a laser, otherwise I can barely get the energy up to make the basic motions to not be rude...if it goes on too long, I won't even bother with that.

    Yeah, I would say that is a recipe for self-absorption.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Martian Manifesto;310990]
    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    When I feel stressed out, I retreat to my cave and watch DVDs the entire day - which I would consider a stimulation of Ni (narrative, imagination etc.). I also don't beat myself up about it, it's my way of dealing with stress. QUOTE]

    I rest my case I think many a shrink would call the DVDs all day a classic example of binge Se. The fact that you don't beat yourself up about it means you are evolved. However, most of the INTJs I know (a fair amount) do EXACTLY the same thing. My good friend who edits my writing for me is an INTJ. He watches WWE wrestling all day. He also says it's his method of stress and how he doesn't beat himself up about it. He says this after telling me all the reasons his life has caused him to retreat into said cave to watch said marathon of senseless mayhem. He keeps it bottled up until he can talk to somebody who actually would even get it. That is the service I happily provide as his INFJ buddy

    That's very kind of you.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  5. #65
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    if i feel i'm being overloaded emotionally - the following wil occur
    1. riding the buses and sleeping/looking at the scenery
    2. indulging in cookies
    3. stretching
    4. watching a random movie
    5. dancing in a goofy way
    I N V I C T U S
    Likes virtualinsanity liked this post

  6. #66
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    well i assume that my ignorance about Ne is much more significant, than my ignorance of Se. Ni works with external data, after all. its like a cow that grabs a bite and chews for a few years. will spit out total analysis of the grass. will start to grow grass out of its ass.

    in the meanwhile the lawn has totally changed. surprise!! grass is gone.
    mushrooms everywhere.

    you just totally missed your option (Ne!) of tasting another bite of grass. maybe the pieces of grass are all different!

    and you don't know a thing about mushrooms, anyway.

    all the insight no longer up to date.

    all of this is much more apparent in a practical/strategical context of behavior.
    its not that strong when dealing intellectually with a "topic".
    but still ...
    also it used to be just as bad intellectually, before i became rational or pluralistic.

    btw, i observed a very similar ignorance about Ne in poorly developed (autistic/savants) Fi people (who seem inclined to Ne, by choice of special topic).
    in that case it was as bad as using windows 95 in 2009.
    or maybe an Fi/Ne person has an even stronger ignorance of Se?

  7. #67
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    i don't think there's any coherent or compelling explanation to this notion of being "in the grip" of Se.

    some of the behaviors could be attributed to being tempted to find pleasure/well-being in the world, but they would probably relate as much or more to e5-->e7 temptations as a way of improving feelings of satiation and to work against the diminishing emotional energies of the e5 as the excessive head-type mental energy burns itself out under extreme stress, the person loses almost all sense of actual PRESENCE, and instead starts to feel kind of like a town that was devastated by a hurricane.

    similarly, i think the sense of being antagonistic often has to do with a trust issue and feeling ultimately powerless. once your emotional system starts to flatline, and your lack of mental energy combines with your relatively low sense of presence and decisive instinctive body type active energy (which is more of a base-line condition of e5), and once you're left with continuing problems that you cannot accept and lose belief/faith/contentedness (heart type energy), you're left with diminishing motivational resources, and it's difficult to continue to think positively and maintain emotional openness and listening. both w4 and w6 are rather low in well-being in general, according to some enneagrammatic theories (and w6 do seem to be more fixated on feeling controlled, whereas w4 do seem more fixated on alienation and being fundamentally alone). as a result, your acceptance ability goes down, which is to say, your ability to stay positive and let go of unlikable or challenging things, and so you see others as threatening and enemies who you hate for having power when you do not, and you are generally more reactive and hostile because the warmth has all gone out.

    so as for being in the grip, i think it's more about the emotional emptiness of an intense anxiety burnout than about Se by itself. i think, however, injs vs itps as e5s might have somewhat different responses because their cognitive realities would be significantly different in construction, and Fe inferior might try to use others to manage their own needs without offering any consideration whatsoever.

    i think infj e4s, e1s, and e9s also might have different responses, just as instinctual stackings would influence how the person looked to find a sense of well-being after they've become more distorted by completely burning out one of their go-to pathways due to inflexibility, extreme stress, and just not maintaining their best operational controls through some turbulent periods that are generally both internally and externally conflicting.

    it seems to me that the cognitive functions are more cognitive and affective intelligences/abilities, but the actual process of stress management is given not only based on the ability to manage outcomes and relationships but also on the internal psychodynamics of how those are interpreted to shape one's motivation, mood-priming, assumptions, and behavioral response patterns.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrielle View Post
    Sounds about right. I tend to obsess over things when I'm presented with dangerous objects like knives, power tools, and cars. I'm like that one INFJ that obsessively checks to make sure every precaution has been taken to make sure one cannot be harmed by accident. Though I also think it's due to my awareness of my tendency to space out at the worst times (I'm very afraid of zoning out in the car while driving and forgetting to also drive or missing a cue).

    And that cupboard thing, yeah...there have been many poor objects that randomly get kicked and shouted at irrationally for being there or not working properly. *cough* Like my router and internet service provider. *cough*

    INJs are scary when they get out of control with Se.
    I know this thread is old but I found it via a Google search. I heavily relate to inferior Se and enjoyed reading this. Usually one would think, isn't indulging in sensory pleasures fun but it's not fun for me because it doesn't feel like something I consciously choose to do...but more like some compulsive force takes over & makes me over indulge on sexual subjects, binge on food, & etc.. Then later on feel so guilty that I'll feel the need to punish myself for it. I do admire some things about Se in those who use it in healthier ways. When I grow tirelessly impulsive , I end up hurting myself for the future & ruining my relationships with others. Recklessness just becomes me and it's a nightmare.. Then I usually sink into a terrible, severe depression. (This also coincides with me being diagnosed as Bipolar because the actions are heightened with mania..)
    The future's... made of...

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