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  1. #51
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martian Manifesto View Post
    True that.

    Most of the INJs that I know all like to acheive a "meditative state" but it is not the mellow type you think of normally and more of a supreme state of mastery over their Ni.

    I think INJs mind needs to "pull back" every now and then so it can let itself reconfigure without annoying input. INJs I think "meditate" almost constantly by most people standards. So "normal" meditation might not cut it. I find that I reach these states of control much better by active imagination and active meditation. For myself, I usually have better luck with yoga, cooking, working out, long walks, grappling with friends who I am very close with (INFJs, INTJs because we are so in synch we don't even need to talk that much). I think that is what most of the "good" manifestations of using the Se well for an INJ seem to look like. I will get the stuff from the book that pertains to the this. Have it in a few....
    Yes. I find meditation to clear my mind and focus to be very important. Working out, and my new hobby, Yoga (pretty cool isn't it!). Actually not bad! Anyways, I can focus my mind very well but as this thread points out, Se does a wrecking ball on me at times and the best way to clear that out is by doing something that clears that out.

    Working out is the best way for me to calm my "aggressive and adversarial attitude" I get at times when I start extroverting. If I don't, while like others said, I won't hurt them physically, but I need release.

    As for obsession with details? Only if something makes me self conscious about it. Doesn't happen too often.

    One of the funniest things I have done in my life is open a door and walk into the edge of the door as I'm opening it. I have done this three times in recent memory. Boy, does that hurt:steam: All doors should be like Star Trek!

  2. #52
    Senior Member Martian Manifesto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    Hm, I see. I think we have a different approach to it, you use meditation as a way to *shape* your Ni in various ways, to counter real-life challenges, and this is something I have done a little... but now I rather use it, as I was saying, as a way of strengthening Se...


    OK, first, my previous post:


    This is a bit inspired by John Beebe's work on MBTI types, which says that the 4th function is the "cause" of our 1st. I don't know if you're familiar with it, otherwise you can read through one of my previous threads (and possibly the link in my first post, though I admit it's long).

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...est-value.html

    As I understand it, for example Ni-Se are on the same "axis" and as an INJ the aim of Ni should be to "reach" or "embrace" Se. You can use Se for itself, but then you lose your Ni, or you can neglect it altogether just to have it "revolt" and take over. Also, any function that just "stays within itself" loses perspective; and many INJs are interested in art, for example, as it expresses Ni in a Se way.

    Now, on meditation: when sitting down to meditate, you are your normal Ni self; it's not like you lose Ni and start indulging in Se, as otherwise happens sometimes. As I understand it, Ni is directed to the unconscious/half-conscious processes that go on inside us all the time and, in meditation, to maintain and "purify" your Ni is part of what you're doing. Everyone can become more aware of the constant flow of thoughts in your mind, but Ni does this from the outside, without identifying with the thoughts. The other part of meditation would be Se then, essentially awareness of your sensual impressions. And as the judging functions go away altogether, maybe that is what makes Se and Ni able to "reach each other"... as essentially, when you meditate there is only one perception.

    I think I could write a lot on this subject, but I have to think about it some more (and keep meditating!) to be able to put it down in words... you get what I mean though?


    Hm... well, I'm not sure, it was just an idea... but in a trance you will really relax your body and all, and if we assume once more that the judging functions just stay out of it... I don't think you would lose your Se.

    But I don't know, I get a feeling I might just be playing with words here... haha, I'm too tired, I don't know if all this really relates to the MBTI or if I'm giving the functions new meanings... have to read more function theory... later... now I have to sleep. :zzz:
    * Your Ni never turns off. If you think that in any way you are mistaken. This may lead to the misunderstanding of the meditation I am speaking of. The meditation you are speaking of is good for beginning. It lets you be aware of your Ni and to "ping" with your Se. This is good but it is only mid-way on the totem pole. Here is a rough idea of how the power level of your Ni goes:
    1) Sleeping
    2) active imagination
    3) meditating
    4) normal
    5) in the grip of your inferior function

    Your Ni is very very "shy". This is why when Se comes in too much it "shuts down". But it doesn't shut down, it goes underground. It is still informing you, but you don't know it. Which is of course dangerous....but also possibly enlightening. Here's why: The Ni does NOT like to be monitored. When you are meditating and "just noting the things floating by...thouthts or stimulus", well your Ni is going to be like an artistic performer who is being watched. You will get to "see" the Ni very clearly from your bhuda-esque position, but the Ni WILL NOT BE PERFORMING ANYWHERE NEAR TOP CAPACITY. In order to do this you must "step thru your intuitions" which you are not doing. This is why I asked for clarification.

    I will give you specific examples to clarify my point.

    1) I have a wonderul vision in a sleeping dream or waking revery. It can be quite good to do the mediation your are talking about to do general Ni inquiry and get some bearings. Make some observations as you were saying. However, this is VERY LOW MOJO for an INFJ. INFJs are capable of much grander stuff. If this vision/idea/train of thought/etc has been mulled over the way you described then it is reading for the next stage of "baking". You will need to WRITE it out. Or SPEAK it out. Or ACT it out. Or DRAW it out. This will be either Fe or Se, both is preferred as you get further along finding out what your Ni has given you. Ask most most artists and ESPECIALLY INFJs and they will tell you that when they are writing a scene, or creating a character, or building a tune hook,etc...they DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO COME OUT UNTIL THEY DO IT. Even though their Ni gave them an idea of what was going to happen (incoming Ni) and they tried to "listen" to it (Ni being monitered and "pinged" as you are describing, they still don't know what is going to happen or be created until they DO IT.

    Why? Because the Ni does not like to be monitored. That's why the dreaming is the most powerful form (ask Carl Jung...he was a much more powerful intuitive than Beebe, and most agree he was either an INFJ or INTJ...either way he was built like us...I'm going with him). Lucid dreaming is the next most powerful form. This is when you are in a dream state while still awake. This is what artists use (well INFJs anyway) at the height of their creative cycle. When I write, I do not know what it will be until I do it...THEN I say "oh, I guess that is what my Ni wanted say". The kind of meditation you are doing is good to know what you got rattling around in there but they will still be in there. This elements will build and build until an INFJ has found it's "voice". If the INFJ does not give voice to these Ni elements, they will make for some nice crazy time. This isn't my theory, it is Mr. Jung's.

    For the Ni to work at it's highest it must be given a chance to EXPRESS itself through and E form (Fe and/or Se) without any monitoring of the person. The person finds out what the Ni had to say afterwards. Everyone could benefit from living their life as an artistic instrument, INFJs don't really have much choice. It seems to me your focus is on becoming calm and having a zen like control and relationship with your Se. This is a goal of many young INFJs. It doesn't work. Your Ni thoughts are stronger than any Se and they are stronger than YOU. When YOU are watching your Ni, when YOU are hanging with your Ni, when YOU are in any way directing your Ni...then your Ni will give you some stuff but it is going to save the really good shiet to when YOU go to effign sleep. By you I am referring to your ego. Your Ni is linked to your inner child, your mana, etc...seriously powerful archtypes...way more powerful than your ego. Your ego taggin along virtually insures a low level interaction. I know that you said you step away from yourself. But you are still there, and your Ni knows it. By the way, it will help your endeavors immensely to see your Ni as a creature inside you that has your best interests at heart. As long as you are still tagging along, the Ni inside you will go slow and weak (still awesome compared to non INJs) because it doesn't want to blow your mind. The CONSCIOUS mind can't handle it. This is why the Ni uses IDEAL opportuities to give you big stuff. It gives them to you when you dream. We usually can't handle the "weight" of such pure Ni gifts so we forget them quickly to protect our fragile ego mind. It also happens when an INFJ is speaking passionately about something to somebody of worth (Fe). Truths will be spoken that the INFJ didn't even know were inside. This also happens when the INFJ's mind WANDERS on Se stuff. The body will teach you things by being moved DIRECTLY by the Ni and not by you. This is why so many documented a-ha moments happen when you are cooking, driving, walking, cleaning, etc....because YOU ARE NOT trying to be an effing Jedi and become one with you Ni.

    Most INFJs are deathly afraid of what would come out of them if they were EVER to go into Fe or Se without THEM driving the Ni. They might actually speak truth and we all know how much trouble that can get you into. You might reveal when of your deep Ni impressions which would leave you exquisitly vulnerable. Yet it is exactly this that takes an INFJ to the next level. I have learned so much from myself by allowing my Ni to flow directly through me while I (ego) keep myself occupied with either a pleasant/interesting Fe or Se activity.

    When I have these a-has then I may need to turn them about some to see what I have...again, I may go back to the less deep Ni meditation you were referring to. I am not belittling it at all. It is an integral part to an INFJs complete repetoire. It is good to get an idea of what the Ni wants to show you and it is good to play with a large Ni gift once it has been given to you.

  3. #53
    Member sleepless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard
    That generally puts me to sleep. This is actually often what I have to do to fall asleep, because during the day my mind is usually so busy chasing whatever bubbles up to the surface that it needs something to slow it down. If an object loses all of its momentum, it will stop.

    There are certain types of people, who, if they're sitting still for long enough, they will fall asleep. This is how I work mentally.
    OK. I could argue here that if this makes you fall asleep it's because you're somehow doing it the wrong way, but if you see no need for the kind of awareness I'm speaking of, then in a sense it might not be *your thing*. And yet, if it calms your mind as you describe it, then that's good.

    Apollanaut/Maabus,

    great to hear that you too are into these things.


    MM,

    it is becoming clear to me that even if we're both INFJs, we are quite different. I can see your perspective, yet mine is different. Let's see if we can sort things out.

    Your Ni never turns off. If you think that in any way you are mistaken. This may lead to the misunderstanding of the meditation I am speaking of. The meditation you are speaking of is good for beginning. It lets you be aware of your Ni and to "ping" with your Se. This is good but it is only mid-way on the totem pole. Here is a rough idea of how the power level of your Ni goes:
    1) Sleeping
    2) active imagination
    3) meditating
    4) normal
    5) in the grip of your inferior function
    First of all, I don't often have vivid dreams, lucid dreams or anyhow inspirational dreams. They are mostly a completely meaningless, dizzy blur that only mirrors my time awake, if anything. I was interested in dreams when I was younger, and I've had a few recurring dreams which have felt meaningful, and also a few lucid ones. But no matter how much I would want my dreams in general to be more interesting, they are the complete opposite, and I don't really care about them anymore. I think you are assuming too much (as perhaps I do too) that your Ni is everybody's Ni. As the most abstract of the functions, it is probably the hardest one to grasp, to clearly define how it works. "Ni works in mysterious ways", so to speak. I find it fascinating how it works in you, but much of what you speak of is sadly underdeveloped in myself. I have felt it, but I can't really get to it. More on that later.

    I didn't see the meditation I practice as a way of of "turning off" Ni, but I can see what you mean. The trance, the special Ni-ish state of mind actually does go away. And your point then is that Ni in this position is not living up to its full potential. If we define Ni as merely a great source of inspiration, then the emptiness of meditation is like watching Ni from the outside, which might at the most be relaxing and let you get some bearings. But is that all there is to it? Ni is partly inspiration, but it is also a direct seeing, and I would say that the seeing in meditation is Ni. That is part of what meditation gives me: it makes me see things more clearly, and in that seeing there is a great potential for change. As clearly as I see a tree in front of me, I lets me see my thoughts and impulses from an outside perspective, the mental state of a person I meet, my own awareness as well as my ego. And behind all these things, there is a great emptiness that cannot be put into words.

    Maybe your Ni is primarily inspirational, and mine is more concerned with "insight"? As much inspiration as your Ni seems to give you (*jealous*) meditation could indeed become an obstacle; when you are inspired, your inspirations will need to be expressed, and why wouldn't you do that? I am not that inspired though, and there is nothing I can do about that, except letting go of myself and allow whatever arises to arise.

    The thing is that I have really felt "the power" of Ni, the "mana" or whatever you want to call it, and I feel it still every now and then. The strongest thing I've felt is a glimpse of a vision to be communicated to other people, to be expressed primarily through Fe, psychological as well as political. But I cannot do this yet; I am too weak and too much trapped inside my ego, and I *know* that the most direct way to "get to" this vision is the meditation I am practicing. It will take many years, but then I will have access to the power and hopefully be able to do something for the world. And paradoxically, I have to let go of it to get it. This is not imagination; it is (again) a faint but direct seeing that never really goes away, which I can only follow without really knowing where it will lead.

    So, I am not trying to control my Ni inspiration or anything like that, which of course wouldn't do any good. But it seems that our intuitions have different emphasis. How much do you recognize yourself in what I have described - insight rather than inspiration?

  4. #54
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martian Manifesto View Post
    There are no INFJ haters out there? A whole thread on how we have a twisted relationship with our Se? Come on, I mean this is too perfect. Take at least one swipe. You'll feel better, I promise.
    Not an INJ hater by any stretch, but
    Quote Originally Posted by Martian Manifesto View Post
    I started a previous thread on the INFJ & INTJ's dominant function: Ni

    This thread is intended to explore the INJ's inferior function: Se

    Let's start the discussion with something I am reading now. Don't want to make this too long so I will just give the main "manfestations" of an INJ "in the grip" of the inferior Se function. They are:

    3) Adversarial Attitude Toward the Outside World


    All input welcome, serious and the not-so-serious

    Enjoy and....attack!
    OK - you said not so serious, too, so . . .
    My Q: Is number 3 is the flip side of self-absorption? Is INJ a serious contender for "most self-absorbed"? If true, is this only when "in the grip"? Why or Why not?
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  5. #55
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    Holy cow! This is so eye-opening to me.

    I recently began taking graduate classes at a university about 70 miles away. I drive down three times a week (and don't particularly like driving). Naturally there have been the usual frustrations that come with figuring out how to fit into the microculture of a new university: where to park, how to navigate the streets (with a overheating car), where to buy books (of course they're always out of the text you need), why my registration is on hold, how to submit an assignment via the new online system, etc. etc. My boyfriend is also beginning classes nearby, and I've been responsible for setting up his classes and things while he was away. All on top of being suddenly swamped with new studies.

    Although I'm so thankful for the opportunity to study, I've found myself in that overly-critical mood for the past month or two. The one where you yell at cabinets for being in your way, obsess about house cleaning, crave an escape novel, and are convinced the world was created just to frustrate you. It's so easy for me to become super-critical about stupid things right now. I haven't been able to figure out what the problem is. I ought to be thrilled through-and-through because I'm finally able to pursue something I care about. What's all this vague antagonism and general angst in place of the joy?

    Reading these descriptions has been so enlightening. I see that I haven't been giving myself permission to be worn out by this sudden abundance of obligations that target my weaknesses. (Everyone else can deal with these problems fine, so who am I to complain?) Because I haven't made time to nurture myself with Se, it's been showing up in other ways.

    I love playing with my dogs because they engage my Se in a positive way. Walks in the woods, tree-gazing, and star-gazing are also ways I escape and recouperate. I have been refusing to do these things recently because I have so many pressing obligations and don't quite feel I've "earned" them until my work is done first.

    Ha. Taught me a lesson, I guess. I'm going to play with my dogs tonight...

  6. #56
    Senior Member Martian Manifesto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    MM,

    it is becoming clear to me that even if we're both INFJs, we are quite different. I can see your perspective, yet mine is different. Let's see if we can sort things out.

    Okay! This stuff is so fascinating, I can't get enough.



    First of all, I don't often have vivid dreams, lucid dreams or anyhow inspirational dreams. They are mostly a completely meaningless, dizzy blur that only mirrors my time awake, if anything. I was interested in dreams when I was younger, and I've had a few recurring dreams which have felt meaningful, and also a few lucid ones. But no matter how much I would want my dreams in general to be more interesting, they are the complete opposite, and I don't really care about them anymore. I think you are assuming too much (as perhaps I do too) that your Ni is everybody's Ni. As the most abstract of the functions, it is probably the hardest one to grasp, to clearly define how it works. "Ni works in mysterious ways", so to speak. I find it fascinating how it works in you, but much of what you speak of is sadly underdeveloped in myself. I have felt it, but I can't really get to it. More on that later.

    * I think each person Ni is definitely different, but I do think there are some way that they "operate" that are similary. Stepping through your Ni is one such operating principle. I lucid dream while sleeping and while waking. The sleeping ones tend to be more inspirational and the waking ones tend to be more insightful. My deep Ni moments do not distinguish between what they give me. They give what they want and I am grateful to recieve. When I was younger I tried to "fish" for what I wanted but have since learned to stay out of it's way. So when this happens what I get is Ni stuff that relates to my relationships, my writing, my path in life, others paths in life, what currents events that I am aware of mean in the archtypal timeline sense, etc. I just let it all come and make note, as you do. Once some "themes" present themselves whether they be inspirational or insightful, I will try make some internal tests to see if I can't get a read on what is being presented to me (Ti). This can only go so far and then I am going to need to step through it. I usually use my Fe. On "first drafts" I am alone and project or summon creatures into the room with me. I am aware that these creatures are not really there but they are necessary for me to step thru using Fe because I must "talk to somebody who isn't me". I often summon friends that I know because their energy is very familiar to me. I then "talk" to them about my insight and two things always happen (well they do now that I have been doing it a while). The first is that when I speak out my inspiration or insight it ALWAYS comes out different than I thought (this is why you do this alone!) so that AFTER I speak I think "interesting" and I note it. This will help my mapping of Ni the next time I do a self monitored meditation. I would not be able to get that map point by being with my Ni. The Ni must flow through me. For example, when I am going to talk to a friend with the intent of "moving" them...yes, the infamous INFJ people helping/horrible manipulation. Anyway, I "rehearse" with imaginary versions of the people I am going to talk to. As I try to express the insight I gleaned from communing with my Ni previously to this person, the Ni insight grows and gets more fleshed out. IMHO this is essentialy if you are ever to develop enough strenght to get you "voice". I believe that the "voice" is the primary mojo of INFJs regardless of what form it takes (writing, advocating, supporting, transforming, etc). The second thing that happens is that my delivery just feels "off". Even though the person in the room isn't actually there, I have still created them with my Ni from a real person I know so I just "know" they would ask me a certain question when I said that but I wouldn't know they would ask that question until I speak out load and THEN I just know they would question this or that in this or that way. I then AUTOMATICALLY answer these questions in a natural way as if we were really dialoguing. This expands my Ni as if it was being "pulled' from me instead of my projecting it. This is considered HIGHLY desirable for INFJ in every book I have ever read on the subject. Many books are very specific about the value of getting extraverted close companions (I recommend ENFPs and ENTPs) to pull things out of the INFJ that will remain hidden and IN THE FIRST Ni-ONLY STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT.

    I didn't see the meditation I practice as a way of of "turning off" Ni, but I can see what you mean. The trance, the special Ni-ish state of mind actually does go away. And your point then is that Ni in this position is not living up to its full potential. If we define Ni as merely a great source of inspiration, then the emptiness of meditation is like watching Ni from the outside, which might at the most be relaxing and let you get some bearings. But is that all there is to it? Ni is partly inspiration, but it is also a direct seeing, and I would say that the seeing in meditation is Ni. That is part of what meditation gives me: it makes me see things more clearly, and in that seeing there is a great potential for change. As clearly as I see a tree in front of me, I lets me see my thoughts and impulses from an outside perspective, the mental state of a person I meet, my own awareness as well as my ego. And behind all these things, there is a great emptiness that cannot be put into words.

    * No you definitely do not turn of the Ni and I didn't think you did. When I said this I was referring to states where you aren't consciously aware of it (ie dreams you don't remember, being in the grip of the inferior function, immersing yourself in the inferior function in a relaxing way, etc). I was referring to the possibility that you may feel that at these times the Ni was "off" and therefore that may have made the need to "touch" you Ni in the meditation you are doing. I could be wrong but I think just being with your Ni is absolutely the foundation for an INFJ, but once you know your "signal stream" and know how to get to it consciously at will (which is what that kind of meditation trains you to do) then there comes the question that haunts every INFJ I know (I don't want to speak for you of course) and that is "okay, so now what does it mean and what am I suppossed to do with it?". For me, my Ni gives me a very good "hunch" but I must field test it to see.

    Maybe your Ni is primarily inspirational, and mine is more concerned with "insight"? As much inspiration as your Ni seems to give you (*jealous*) meditation could indeed become an obstacle; when you are inspired, your inspirations will need to be expressed, and why wouldn't you do that? I am not that inspired though, and there is nothing I can do about that, except letting go of myself and allow whatever arises to arise.

    * My Ni comes in many forms, but all of them require expression at some point in order to develop them. That's why inventors make prototypes. There are things you just won't know until you 'build it". The Ni is not suppossed to stay inside the INFJ. The INFJ is suppossed to eventually develop the Tertiary Ti so it can discern the inspirations/insights/a-has that the INFJ wants to "get more into" and this is with the intention of finally bringing it to the world at some point. It is in the finding of "how" the INFJ would actually do it, that often helps define the "voice".

    The thing is that I have really felt "the power" of Ni, the "mana" or whatever you want to call it, and I feel it still every now and then. The strongest thing I've felt is a glimpse of a vision to be communicated to other people, to be expressed primarily through Fe, psychological as well as political. But I cannot do this yet; I am too weak and too much trapped inside my ego, and I *know* that the most direct way to "get to" this vision is the meditation I am practicing. It will take many years, but then I will have access to the power and hopefully be able to do something for the world. And paradoxically, I have to let go of it to get it. This is not imagination; it is (again) a faint but direct seeing that never really goes away, which I can only follow without really knowing where it will lead.

    * That's it! That's it! I get these type of Ni impressions/visions also. If the meditation is taking you closer then rock on. At some point however you are going to have to a) see what ya got. you won't know this until you take it (Ni) out of your pocket (conscious mind). When I have the politcal/psychological insights I definitely use my imaginary friend vetting process (often on long walks in quiet areas...super early in the morning or super late at night works best for me). Eventually this brings me to the point where I just "have" to "test" it out on the real people. These are always friendly and intuitive people at first. Going to people who don't understant you or Ni is just a recipe for getting my psyche beat up. Then to friendly peole who don't know me, and on and on and on. Each stage makes the voice on this stronger, fuller and clearer.

    So, I am not trying to control my Ni inspiration or anything like that, which of course wouldn't do any good. But it seems that our intuitions have different emphasis. How much do you recognize yourself in what I have described - insight rather than inspiration?
    * I also don't try to control. They free flow and I observe, collect, turn around in my mind and then start deciding which ones to do real world inquiries/experiments with. For example, I didn't want to write. Thought writing was a waste of time. It was only after my inner child lobbed scerario after scenario that I finally capitulated. I still think it's silly and how silly it is that it makes me feel so great to do it.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Martian Manifesto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    Not an INJ hater by any stretch, but

    OK - you said not so serious, too, so . . .
    My Q: Is number 3 is the flip side of self-absorption? Is INJ a serious contender for "most self-absorbed"? If true, is this only when "in the grip"? Why or Why not?
    Contender? I am offended. Proud am I in my self-absorption. Of course, being an INFJ, I think of this as SELF-absorption therefore making it more spiritual. Wow, I am really disgusting myself now. And then of course we should be SELF-absorbed because if we find the gold inside then it will not only help us but everyone, or so we think. We think are inner revelations will be so effing spiffy that the entire world will be changed for the better, once we figure outselves out. Contender? Reigning champs

    Only in the grip? Nope, unfortunately. In fact the Ni comes before the Se. We are alredy completely self absorbed (so are INTJs but we go the extra mile and make that shiet personal and then when Se flares up we are freaked that we are not able to touch our Ni world. So when we use our primary Ni we are completely and HAPPILY SELF-absorbed and when we are in the grip we are frustrated and self-absorbed. We are then self-absorbed about how the world is keeping us from getting back to our self-absorption

  8. #58
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    MM,

    thanks for the thread and the discussion, it has definitely given me some new insights on IN(F)J-ness. It's very inspiring to hear of your own "Ni adventures" too. I think I'm done for now though, but maybe I'll start some other thread some day on a similar subject. Good luck with everything, and may the Ni be with you.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Martian Manifesto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    MM,

    thanks for the thread and the discussion, it has definitely given me some new insights on IN(F)J-ness. It's very inspiring to hear of your own "Ni adventures" too. I think I'm done for now though, but maybe I'll start some other thread some day on a similar subject. Good luck with everything, and may the Ni be with you.
    It was very nice meeting you. May the Ni be with you as well.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF3157 View Post
    Not an INJ hater by any stretch, but
    Better effen not be cause I don't wanna have to change my type but I will if you hate em

    OK - you said not so serious, too, so . . .
    My Q: Is number 3 is the flip side of self-absorption? Is INJ a serious contender for "most self-absorbed"? If true, is this only when "in the grip"? Why or Why not?
    Kinda, maybe possibly yes. Why? just gonna go with Martian Manifesto's answer cause I'm drunkish and my answer would sound simpleton compared to that but possibly yes.

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