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  1. #71
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    NFJs can draw out sides of your personality that you never knew were there. You can't really do anything about it either, it's gonna happen. I think that's why NFJs get a lot of hate from people...it's a loss of personal control. Before you try to get close to one, you had best truly know yourself.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  2. #72
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalWounds View Post
    NFJs can draw out sides of your personality that you never knew were there. You can't really do anything about it either, it's gonna happen.
    LOL WUT??
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  3. #73
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Yes. Very observant of you to pick it up. Fe for the most part craves approval. INFJs inherent niceness is there so that other people think we're nice. A reputation thing. Except to admit we're selfishly nice is unacceptable. So we cover everything up by acting "unselfishly" nice. Self-giving taken to the extreme.
    i'm new to functions, but i just got the book functions of type and i've been exploring the meaning of them more. my book calls Fe the Guide. it also says,

    "The Fe part of each of us coordinates people and things to harmoniously achieve group and individual goals. Initiating, building, and maintaining personal relationships is a primary goal of the Guide. Loss of personal relationship through disharmony is to be avoided at almost any cost. Even intellectual arguments are normally avoided out of fear that the discussion my turn disharmonious.

    The Guide draws out other people's beliefs, emotions, or ideas and tends to focus on what they share with her. Often the Guide will share personal information in an attempt to bond with other people. After identifying other people's needs the Guide will try, when possible, to meet those needs, frequently at the expense of meeting her own needs.

    In order to smoothly relate to other people, the extraverted Feeling Guide internalizes cultural values, treats them as if they are personal values, and uses them to drive decisions. When functioning in a group or on a team, the Guide seeks to maintain group harmony and makes sure each person is recognized and taken care of.

    Often the Guide attempts to educate other people as to appropriate behaviors in given situations."
    i don't see anywhere that Fe craves approval. but i do get a nuance of what you are saying, i believe. it does feel good to me when someone else thinks i'm nice, but it isn't a driving force or motivator for me, it's just a warm fuzzy kind of thing, for me.


    Despite what any INFJ might say, there's only so much you can give. Any person we can justifiably cut off from the list we tend to do so. And once you're off the list, forget about getting back in it.

    Love from anybody is always contingent on something. If you dig deep down, there's always a gain. However love to INFJ is about as "pure" as you can get. What's gain is well being from the relationship and caring for your partner. It's not contingent directly on the person at all... nor is it on the INFJ.
    true, but when i'm at my best, i can give quite a lot.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #74
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If everyone disagreed with your choice, would you change your choice?


    (And why not? What's the objective part of the choice in the first place, and how does it withstand other people disagreeing?)
    K, answer my own question, so you can know, or at least be inveigled to believe, I'm not seeking to discredit...

    The truth of human feeling is the objective part. (And while feeling varies from person to person and moment to moment, that just means it's complex, and even if subjective, not that unanalysably so.)

    And once the truth is apprehended, suitable/good/valuable feeling can be sought out and promoted.

    This is a little different from seeking approval, observing however as we should that approval is quite likely to follow from instantiation of suitable/good/valuable feeling in the other person.


    And while these claims are hopelessly apriori for yonder Ti types, do they nonetheless ring any bells?

  5. #75
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    K, answer my own question, so you can know, or at least be inveigled to believe, I'm not seeking to discredit...

    The truth of human feeling is the objective part. (And while feeling varies from person to person and moment to moment, that just means it's complex, and even if subjective, not that unanalysably so.)

    And once the truth is apprehended, suitable/good/valuable feeling can be sought out and promoted.

    This is a little different from seeking approval, observing however as we should that approval is quite likely to follow from instantiation of suitable/good/valuable feeling in the other person.


    And while these claims are hopelessly apriori for yonder Ti types, do they nonetheless ring any bells?
    hey, kalach! i didn't respond to your question the first time cuz i just didn't understand it. (i'm super ditzy). but i really want to respond now, but *cringe* i still don't understand it.

    i think i must disagree with the bolded part. the truth of feeling can only, by definition, be subjective, no? feeling: to be conscious of an inward impression, state of mind, or physical condition.

    and aren't all feelings and emotions 'true' just by their very existence? i consider all my feelings suitable/good/and valuable even if they are foibled for the most part. or do you mean something else here?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #76
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    hey, kalach! i didn't respond to your question the first time cuz i just didn't understand it. (i'm super ditzy). but i really want to respond now, but *cringe* i still don't understand it.

    i think i must disagree with the bolded part. the truth of feeling can only, by definition, be subjective, no? feeling: to be conscious of an inward impression, state of mind, or physical condition.
    I'm working off what I remember reading in a snippet of Jung on extraverted feeling, him saying that extraverted feeling seeks objectivity for the feeling, in some way, the users attaching it to what's out there. And then I'm making up stuff, like, social codes and human states get to be objectively distinguishable via Fe inasmuch as its attached to stuff and evaluates.

    And then I'm making up the big one: without this aspect of objectivity to Fe, the best one can hope for is conventional rules for behaviour, so Fe might be criticized as mere approval seeking. Which, apparently, it isn't.


    and aren't all feelings and emotions 'true' just by their very existence?
    Hidunno. What's the purpose of an INFJ? Obviously not just to kill time feeling the feelings of the world nearby. There's something else. Something about evaluation of feeling. And to be all generic for a moment, Ti is below Fe in NFJ, so "true" will have a nuanced meaning, and when an INFJ claims to be seeking truth, as you guys are sometime want, then you're seeking...?

    Health? (Of feeling?) Value? (Which one?) Approval? Maintenance of convention for the purpose of...

  7. #77
    Senior Member mwv6r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Some people however do assume that I am more in sympathy with them than I truly am because I don't offer a lot of opinions about things that matter unless they are solicited. Most people then assume that I agree with them which isn't true.

    Also because we try to put ourself in others' shoes we are less likely to write people off as quickly. This can be construed as caring, when it may be only gathering enough data to make an informed opinion about someone. We often give the benefit of the doubt unless there is an immediate bad gut feeling about the person.
    Wow, soooo true! Reading that, I feel like you've been peeking into my brain, lol.

    Surprisingly often, I find myself in a position in which I strongly disagree with a friend but if they are upset I let them rant and get what they need to off their chest without disagreeing with them, just because I get the feeling that they need to get their emotions out without judgment.

    I also come across as very nonjudgmental because I put myself in others' shoes so much. People who others immediately write off I will give the benefit of the doubt. I've been in situations before in which I was confused how my neutral perception of a person was so different from a friend's negative perception of them, and in those cases I felt within myself a strong desire to get more data. I really take my time when it comes to deciding whether I dislike a person, and I give them a lot opportunities to prove themselves because my ability to empathize makes me very forgiving of others' perceived faults. However, if they cross a line and violate my values they are immediately dead to me -- what I've heard called the "INFJ door slam." Of course with the vast majority of people it never comes to that point, and probably most of those people find me a very "nice" person without really understanding the way my mind works. I do think I'm a nice person, but psychologically it's more complicated than that...

  8. #78
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I'm working off what I remember reading in a snippet of Jung on extraverted feeling, him saying that extraverted feeling seeks objectivity for the feeling, in some way, the users attaching it to what's out there. And then I'm making up stuff, like, social codes and human states get to be objectively distinguishable via Fe inasmuch as its attached to stuff and evaluates.

    And then I'm making up the big one: without this aspect of objectivity to Fe, the best one can hope for is conventional rules for behaviour, so Fe might be criticized as mere approval seeking. Which, apparently, it isn't.




    Hidunno. What's the purpose of an INFJ? Obviously not just to kill time feeling the feelings of the world nearby. There's something else. Something about evaluation of feeling. And to be all generic for a moment, Ti is below Fe in NFJ, so "true" will have a nuanced meaning, and when an INFJ claims to be seeking truth, as you guys are sometime want, then you're seeking...?

    Health? (Of feeling?) Value? (Which one?) Approval? Maintenance of convention for the purpose of...
    yes. i do throw the word Truth around a lot. i wikied it as your question stymied me (as usual!), and in my brief review found that among the many theories of truth, i find, initially, william james' pragmatic theory to ring true for me at this time: "Truth is verifiable to the extent that thoughts and statements correspond with actual things, as well as the extent to which they "hang together," or cohere, as pieces of a puzzle might fit together; these are in turn verified by the observed results of the application of an idea to actual practice."

    so perhaps, Fe provides us infj with unlimited fodder to feed our rapacious Ni which cunningly culls colossal amounts of data to make conclusions which tickle Truth's fancy?

    does that make any sense? i'm half unconscious now.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #79
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    An xNFJ ate my entire family. Thereís nothing nice or caring about them

  10. #80
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    An xNFJ ate my entire family. Thereís nothing nice or caring about them
    Very good point.
    They should be burned at the stake.



    Or something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

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