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  1. #11
    heart on fire
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    Re: Protean's post. Very good points to bring up.

    I think introverts can be confused by extroverts and think they've made it into the inner circle when they haven't. This is simply because introverts don't have as much energy to invest in half way friendships. If they are spending a lot of time and attention on you, it's usually a pretty solid invite inwards but for extroverts they have more energy to spend and may take pleasure in your company but not necessarily want you inside yet or ever. So introverts need to keep this in mind. I've been misled and confused by this in the past but sort of think I am coming to understand it more now.

    Am I off base here?

  2. #12
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    ahahhaha, I need to take some pointers from Superman then!
    argh i'm not sure that's a good thing. superman's really private. funny thing is, no one would mention that about him unless they try to get in their head often/want closure. i've known the guy since primary school. i'm now 20. i still don't have the fuzziest idea how he thinks. the closest i get is with the MBTI analysis on ENFJ's, and it's not like he was willing to take the test

  3. #13
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Re: Protean's post. Very good points to bring up.

    I think introverts can be confused by extroverts and think they've made it into the inner circle when they haven't. This is simply because introverts don't have as much energy to invest in half way friendships. If they are spending a lot of time and attention on you, it's usually a pretty solid invite inwards but for extroverts they have more energy to spend and may take pleasure in your company but not necessarily want you inside yet or ever. So introverts need to keep this in mind. I've been misled and confused by this in the past but sort of think I am coming to understand it more now.

    Am I off base here?
    no you're absolutely right. many I's get mistaken for E's. my dad is an INTP, but he's the most expressive INTP you'll meet. there may be parts of your character that deviate from the norm score of your type, and pretty much everyone has a few of them. same kind of thing with my sister. we're so close and she's so nuts around me i tend to think of her as an E. in big get-togethers though, she's pretty quiet. the moral of the story is that the I and the E functions just tell you where one gets their energy from. it's a bit different from the typical model of an introvert or extrovert.

    edit: sorry for the double post, but bite me

  4. #14
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Honestly, this post comes across as very selfish. Me me me, why can't she give me what I want, what I need, make ME feel special. What about her? Think about where she's coming from: she's exhausted from spreading herself too thin. She seems to have taken all these people under her wing, so much that she's totally neglected herself, because now she can't connect to anyone, including herself. There's got to be some strange shit lurking behind that, don't you think? Most people don't give themselves out like that without saving some things privately for themselves. She's given herself out like some kind of celebrity because she needs something. I can speculate, but I don't know. Point is, you're not the only one with problems -- open your eyes wider.

    I think you should consider HER and leave your own needs aside. What is it she's looking for? Why can't she make a connection with YOU? What's preventing her? Is she afraid of imposing on anyone? Being intimate? Showing her own emptiness, perhaps? I say you try and have a conversation with her and make yourself available for HER to talk and complain. That's it. If she doesn't take your offer (and for god's sake, don't force her to open up) then just hang out or go back another time with the same agenda. Try it for 2 months and see if your relationship matures.

  5. #15
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladypinkington View Post
    I don't know what to do
    Have you proposed that she simply hang out with just the two of you every now and again, even if that means planning in advance?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  6. #16
    Rubber Nipple Salesperson ladypinkington's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ladypinkington;294360]
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Think about where she's coming from: she's exhausted from spreading herself too thin. She seems to have taken all these people under her wing, so much that she's totally neglected herself, because now she can't connect to anyone, including herself. There's got to be some strange shit lurking behind that, don't you think? Most people don't give themselves out like that without saving some things privately for themselves. She's given herself out like some kind of celebrity because she needs something. I can speculate, but I don't know. Point is, you're not the only one with problems -- open your eyes wider.
    I realize that actually. I realize a lot of it is that she is very self unaware.
    I know for some reason she avoids reflecting- because she is afraid of the thoughts that she'd run into- maybe she is afraid of spending time with herself and getting to know herself. I realize that she has bad boundaries but good intentions.

    I wouldn't take offense if this was just a friendship- but it is supposed to be a familyship. My husband and I were supposed to be adopted and were told that we were different then other people. Imagine your spouse treating other women/men the same as you making them the same priority as you- you would naturally feel confused as to what your place is. I think the real problem is that this comittment was made without really knowing each other- there is this connection and love of each other without any real history and emotional initmacy and yet there is all of this obligation. She has all these people call her mother- and she takes on the duties of a mother to them but says in the mean time that she doesn't really see them as her children. I can't help but feel confused. I can't help but question the meaningfulness of everthing.

    It does bother me if someone makes promises to me and doesn't keep them.
    When they paint a picture for you and it keeps changes scenery. It is hard to not start distrusting and kill looking forward to anything. It is hard for me to ask for anything when I know so many other people need from her and that she doesn't give enough to herself.

    I don't ask from her- I know that a person can't give what they don't have- it is frustrating when someone wants you to ask from them and don't realize the latter. That is what hurts and makes me angry because she made us believe that she had the things to give to us and made a promise. I am angry because she expects from me the things I cannot give as well. I cannot feel secure in a relationship that has no clear definitions. She expects me to ask from her when she can't even answer. I feel angry because I don't know what to ask for and how to need.

    My husband and I still feel like strangers to her and she with us and we need to get to know each other. Add on the fact that she is leaving soon for five years and it makes it even weirder and more complicated. That was a ball dropped on us recently. It is like getting married to a person and them leaving a few months afterwards for years and years. We were already feeling more disconnected, now with this we don't know how to feel.

    She is not a bad person- and I do care for her very much- I just feel confused and hurt and mad at myself as well. There is so much to this that would take so long to even begin to explain. I know she must feel confused too and lost and hurt as well.

    I am at a point where I just need to vent. I know feelings aren't necessarily the reality of a situation- that is what makes it all the more confusing. I don't know what feelings are right, what to feel.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
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    i understand your problem. i have a close ENFJ friend and I know she usually makes people think that they are special to her. with Fe, all the compliments and good regards just come naturally from her. sometimes she doesn't even realize it.
    we all have the desire to be complimented and desire for the feeling of closeness in this society that is full of individual independence. unfortunately, the proportion of Fe (as dominant) in the population is not that large (of course not more than 1/8). so every time we encounter an Fe, with the way he/she treats us we'd like to think, and therefore think, that we are special.

    i used to have that feeling of confused before getting close to my current ENFJ friend right now. it was hurt to find out in the opposite direction.
    my suggestion is that you just have to think that you are really special to her and act accordingly (even though sadly you've found out you're not). eventually she'll go on the track you've been wanting her to (because of her Fe)
    "Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters"

  8. #18
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    ladypinkington, now that you've explained the situation even more I'm a little confused as to what the problem is.

    Is the problem is she's being too nice to you, making you feel too welcome and cared for but she does it for everyone so now you're not feeling special anymore? Just the way you described her I'm going to guess that she's an older woman, maybe has a family of her own, maybe has connections that predate her relationship with you, maybe has already established which connections are deeper and the ones that are superficial. It sounds like this woman is a mother figure to many people and actually done what Fe dominants have problems doing: set up boundaries and prioritized her relationships with people instead of trying to be everything to all. Why do you say she's unaware of herself? She's made connections with many and instead of accepting the connection as what it is (extended out of love and a genuine desire to help) it's about it not being unique enough?

    In the relationship between parents and children, how unfair would it be for parents to show more attention to one child at the cost of another? It sounds like this is what you want this woman to do, show more attention to you at the expense of the other relationships she's nurtured. It sounds like you want her to be exclusively yours and yours alone. Is that really fair? She sounds like she's trying to handle the situation with some grace and diplomacy, but the more tactful she becomes the more it's viewed as insincere. No matter what she does she'll dig herself deeper into the hole.

    Am I off base here?
    What kind of promises is she making to you that are being broken?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #19
    Rubber Nipple Salesperson ladypinkington's Avatar
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    I cannot get close to someone with tons of people around
    does anyone know what intimacy is anymore?

    be a mother to these people at a different time when you are a mother to us
    these people know you better- they feel more of a right to you
    it's too competitive
    they're always trying to show me they are the alpha dogs
    but what is weird is that you say that they aren't even your pets
    and that I am
    they don't know that
    they don't know what their real place is
    How do I act- I try taking my place and I end up getting hated

    I am confused
    we have this committment but we don't know you that well we don't have a history and want to build a history
    a history with you and not these other million people
    What I bought is not what was sold to me

    get-togethers constantly cancelled
    we're going to do this
    we're going to do that
    never happens never happens
    too busy too busy
    you have to be in proximity to be remembered
    if you have bad boundaries you are rewarded
    i don't want to have bad boundaries

    I get my hopes up
    i get my heart set on things

    I mean more but am not shown more
    But more is expected from me
    why then are you surprised that I am confused

    good people bad communication
    things not defined
    places, meanings, expectations

    everyone is lost
    Me and hubby made an RPG Nutrition Game
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  10. #20
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I feel intimacy is more a state of spiritual existence between two people and less a physical state? Like ENTP I cited before, he's extremely busy but I feel (and know) that we're very close. See what I mean?

    You do sound very hurt though. Make it clear you wish to speak to her about this uninterrupted.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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