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View Poll Results: Why do some thinkers demonize feelers

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  • They are emotionally immature.

    58 31.18%
  • They just don't understand how feelers make decisions.

    90 48.39%
  • They confuse emotion with the MBTI definition of feeler.

    96 51.61%
  • They have an irrational fear of empathy.

    27 14.52%
  • They lack social skills.

    28 15.05%
  • They're big meanies!

    38 20.43%
  • Feelers are simply better at resolving conflict and dealing with their emotions

    10 5.38%
  • Feelers demonize thinkers in private instead of openly.

    25 13.44%
  • I'm a feeler and I think feelers suck too.

    10 5.38%
  • Other.

    39 20.97%
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Results 251 to 260 of 266

  1. #251
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    As for the scientific extremes, dark does not exist, only light does. Dark is defined by the absence of light, but light is not defined by the absence of dark. The same holds true for sound, hot, close and everything else.

    To insist that the entire world is logical would be incorrect I agree. This does not mean that the world cannot be entirely explained in terms of logic, or, if you so desire, in terms of illogic.
    I was going to post something similar; thanks for saving me the trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Light is the absence of darkness, Now what? Definitions are human constructs.. I think the real argument here is you are arrogant in your humanity and I am not. You believe science has all the answers already, instead of understanding it might have all the answers some day but not in your life time.
    I agree with this, though I did not interpret Lucas' comments as a claim that science already has all the answers. That would imply that no further scientific discoveries will be forthcoming.

    It is also worth contrasting science with engineering. Science is about understanding, while engineering seeks to apply that understanding. The gap between a potentially perfect understanding of something, and a flawless device or structure includes the many limitations on our abilities actually to fabricate what we can design. As for the idea of spectrum, spectrum implies a continuum, while a duality implies a a binary set of discrete choices. They are about as opposite as one can get when specifying the range of values a parameter can take on. Dualities make for compelling metaphor, but spectra make for more precise science.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbizzi View Post
    "Then again, most people are stupid." lol. Gotta love INTJ's.
    Thank you for your support.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #252
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    We all are emotional beings. We just put different emphasis on the reactivity to those emotions. The issues that push an emotional reaction from me are not the same things that would push an NF to react.

    For me, anger and frustration are emotions I'm more comfortable with showing publicly. For an NF warmth or hurt might be easier to openly show. Yet we are both reacting emotionally to whatever situation causes those feelings and we both feel all those different emotions. What gets shown is what brings us to a state of confusion concerning each other.

    It is what it is. We are all different and deserve respect. Anyone who doesn't understand another's approach probably should just chalk it up to incompatibility and move on without insult.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  3. #253
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    I had different experiences with the Feelers and I can tell two things from my INTJ's perspective:

    - When I'm fine, I'm scared of the Feelers due to their unpredictability. Because you can predict how the Thinker will behave and how he / she will treat you if you do something good / bad. You cannot say the same about the Feeler and their empathy can win even with common sense. This scares me. For example, if I had a Feeler boss, I wouldn't feel confident as my results at work can be overshadowed by the fact that he / she doesn't like me as a person.

    - When I'm down, I seek for the Feelers. The thoughs are leading to introspection / scenarios and are crossing somewhere between Pink Floyd's The Wall or NIN's Downward Spiral / Fragile. I don't need a rational advise at this time (I can give a million of rational advices myself), just need someone to tell "poor you", "it doesn't matter", "people make mistakes", etc. Hugging is also appreciated Anything that can switch off my rationality because this is rationality, which makes me feel so miserable now.
    I know this is an egoistic approach, so I try to remember those cases when someone cheered me up (luckily, they happen rarely) and even feel in debt to those people with big hearts. If later there is an opportunity to help them, I try to.

  4. #254
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greta View Post
    I don't find thinkers are the ones prone to "demonizing" others. Take a look at this thread, for example. For those who do, perhaps it's because they think only demon possession can explain all the bitter, idiotic thinker-vilification that goes on under the "we thinkers are wise angels" banner.
    We're not even that clever. This is nothing but Pavlovian bullshit.

    Quick simple answer - Thinkers demonize Feelers, because often, from their perspective, the latter simply get in the way without offering the kind of resistance that improves what the Thinker wants to accomplish.

    More complex answer - it comes across that way because there's a disconnect between an outcome-based perception and an impact-based perception.

  5. #255
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    wonder if thinkers actions or words get taken the wrong way and they get exhausted having to worry about emotional upkeep of a feeler, constantly tending of fragile emotions?

  6. #256
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I certainly find it exhausting when I do worry about the emotional impact.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #257
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juliette View Post
    I had different experiences with the Feelers and I can tell two things from my INTJ's perspective:

    - When I'm fine, I'm scared of the Feelers due to their unpredictability. Because you can predict how the Thinker will behave and how he / she will treat you if you do something good / bad. You cannot say the same about the Feeler and their empathy can win even with common sense. This scares me. For example, if I had a Feeler boss, I wouldn't feel confident as my results at work can be overshadowed by the fact that he / she doesn't like me as a person.
    that's really interesting.

    from an F perspective, i think we do operate consistently, but we take into consideration different factors than Ts. you should be able to anticipate an extraverted Feeler with relative consistency as long as you understand the interpersonal factors that they are looking at... how your actions impact them, how they impact each member of the group, etc. an introverted Feeler will be a bit more difficult, but if you can understand their values, then you should be able to anticipate their responses as well.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    that's really interesting.

    from an F perspective, i think we do operate consistently, but we take into consideration different factors than Ts. you should be able to anticipate an extraverted Feeler with relative consistency as long as you understand the interpersonal factors that they are looking at... how your actions impact them, how they impact each member of the group, etc. an introverted Feeler will be a bit more difficult, but if you can understand their values, then you should be able to anticipate their responses as well.
    Thank you for this perspective. Can you tell if there's any pattern in how the Feeler operates? Or, where I can read more?

    I'm interested because there are some people whom I can define as Feelers and there can be a situation when they need help (as I said, they helped me when I was down, and I feel being in debt) but I really don't know how. Also, there are 3 Feelers reporting to me (yes, we did MBTI at work) and one day I can get a Feeler boss (now, there's a Thinker and I feel confident).

    I did a training at work to develop warmth to people but it only made me more rational. I learnt that everyone has a right for a mistake, so you cannot blame anyone if this is the first time.

    Do you use the same criteria? People can make a mistake and first time doesn't count? Or, you can close your eyes on mistakes if the person is nice (whatever it means)?

    Thanks.

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juliette View Post
    Thank you for this perspective. Can you tell if there's any pattern in how the Feeler operates? Or, where I can read more?
    Off the top of my head, I would suggest "The Lost Art of Listening" by Michael P. Nichols, PhD. It gives plenty of concrete examples for developing a more empathetic communication style. It also talks about what constitutes excessive emotionality (being overly defensive, manipulation, generating conflict, etc.) and how to handle that as well.

    I did a training at work to develop warmth to people but it only made me more rational. I learnt that everyone has a right for a mistake, so you cannot blame anyone if this is the first time.

    Do you use the same criteria? People can make a mistake and first time doesn't count? Or, you can close your eyes on mistakes if the person is nice (whatever it means)?

    Thanks.
    Subordinates are presumed to be in a training mode. So if they make a mistake, it may be because office policy on that issue is unclear or poorly disseminated, or maybe you yourself haven't been clear about exactly how to handle those particular kinds of cases. Or maybe something just got dropped through the cracks--for example, it wasn't made clear that the issue in question was a high priority.

    So yeah, in general you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt on the first mistake: That is, you assume that there was some kind of miscommunication in assigning them the task or there was some kind of problem with training, and you use that first mistake as a training/counseling opportunity. And then you go into punishment mode only when the same mistake occurs a second time, in which case you can now assume that they do indeed have all the necessary training and tools but simply refuse to implement the policy for reasons of their own.

    I think that's the general idea for what you're describing.

  10. #260
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    Most people suck, regardless of type. If you suck, you suck, T or F doesn't matter.

    Too many people, of all types, seem invested in proving to everyone that their view of things is the " Only Right Way."

    Hubris...

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