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View Poll Results: Why do some thinkers demonize feelers

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  • They are emotionally immature.

    58 31.18%
  • They just don't understand how feelers make decisions.

    90 48.39%
  • They confuse emotion with the MBTI definition of feeler.

    96 51.61%
  • They have an irrational fear of empathy.

    27 14.52%
  • They lack social skills.

    28 15.05%
  • They're big meanies!

    38 20.43%
  • Feelers are simply better at resolving conflict and dealing with their emotions

    10 5.38%
  • Feelers demonize thinkers in private instead of openly.

    25 13.44%
  • I'm a feeler and I think feelers suck too.

    10 5.38%
  • Other.

    39 20.97%
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  1. #181
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowrose View Post
    So it's more of a utilitarian view of people, not a judgmental one.
    Yes, this echoes my thoughts on seeing the title of this thread, how the word 'demonize' suggests a value judgement, precisely the kind of thing that's at the bedrock of F/T misunderstandings in many cases: the F makes value judgements and therefore, when hearing the T making their judgements (which are usually utilitarian and not morally driven) they believe they're being value-judged. It's a classic case of people attributing their own motives and meanings to others, inappropriately.

    I can't think of many T's who'd outright say F's were 'demonic'. But quite a lot would probably say they can be difficult to deal with (from the T's POV obviously) and so their opinions are more to do with utility, strategy, analysis sorta thing than deciding or saying whether a person is good or bad as a person.

    Personally thoughts of whether someone's good or bad rarely enter my head, including when it comes to when I'm deciding what sort of dealings I'd like to have with them.

    It's all the more intriguing then that the title that got me thinking "that's EXACTLY the kind of wrong assessment of my assessment that a Feeler would make!" was actually by a Thinker!

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  2. #182
    Member Hang's Avatar
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    I don't think Feelers a better than resolving their feelings more than anyone because they are so emotional.

    As I've seen on this forum, lots of Ts just don't understand the way Fs function. Some Ts base their outlooks on Fs by the defintion of Feelers, or their experience, either way, the Fs are not going to like it because it doesn't meet up to their standard.

  3. #183
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    The "demonization" factor comes in, from my perspective, when we are talking about a Tee or an Eff who haven't yet fully developed their potential.

    Substitute's observations appear to be those regarding healthy ways to deal with those who are different.

    I believe that Feelers who react in an emotional manner simply haven't yet realized that it is important not to allow their feelings to control their behavior. In this Thinkers seem accurate. Takes a while to learn that when feelings are so overwhelming. And it can't take place with only the help of a self-help book. It requires face-to-face effort.

    While immature Feelers appear irrational and out of control to Thinkers, an undeveloped Thinker can appear agonizingly self-superior to a Feeler.

    There's an implied threat in both youthful styles to one's well-being or one's own shaky sense of development and confidence.

    Patience is what is called for and what youth, especially in this time of instant gratification, has yet to learn.

    I find my patience sorely tried watching the kinds of mindgames that some play while interacting in forums and need to look in the mirror of my past to collect my sensibilities!

    And as a Feeler, reading the subtle, and obvious, pokes at others' tender points can be a painful experience.

    Secret: My first response to this as a Feeler? *$&#%#*&$*!
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  4. #184
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    And more.

    It seems obvious to me that we don't need to understand where another is coming from. I truly enjoy those of us who are interested in pursuing understanding.

    All that's required in civil discourse is - civility!
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #185
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    And more.

    It seems obvious to me that we don't need to understand where another is coming from. I truly enjoy those of us who are interested in pursuing understanding.

    All that's required in civil discourse is - civility!
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  6. #186
    Member Shadowrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yes, this echoes my thoughts on seeing the title of this thread, how the word 'demonize' suggests a value judgement, precisely the kind of thing that's at the bedrock of F/T misunderstandings in many cases: the F makes value judgements and therefore, when hearing the T making their judgements (which are usually utilitarian and not morally driven) they believe they're being value-judged. It's a classic case of people attributing their own motives and meanings to others, inappropriately.
    I'm actually amazed how prevalent this really is.. it always baffles me when people project themselves on someone else, and then refuse to understand that there -is- a difference. I mean, people aren't identical. Most people aren't even similar!

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I can't think of many T's who'd outright say F's were 'demonic'. But quite a lot would probably say they can be difficult to deal with (from the T's POV obviously) and so their opinions are more to do with utility, strategy, analysis sorta thing than deciding or saying whether a person is good or bad as a person.
    Oh, I know a few F's I'd say, outright, that are 'demonic'. But, by no means would I dare attribute this to all of them. I know too many really awesome ones that are downright 'angelic'.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Personally thoughts of whether someone's good or bad rarely enter my head, including when it comes to when I'm deciding what sort of dealings I'd like to have with them.
    Y'know, thoughts of good or bad enter my intellectual mind, if only as an observation.. "You know, this person is a really bad person. Oh well, we have business to take care of." I'll, frankly, work with most people regardless of how greater society judges their actions. So long as they don't personally wrong me (which is admittedly difficult to do..), we'll be fine. I have a good, strong moral compass. It just doesn't always point straight.

  7. #187
    Senior Member Snail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelTao View Post
    Bwa ha ha, thank you!

    Ironically, a true thinker would really be looking at feelers dispassionately and acceptingly rather than feeling negative emotions about feelers - apparently emotions such as disdain, fear, dislike, aversion, annoyance, etc.

    Interesting you picked the word demonize. I don't know how deeply you thought about your word choice, but it is suggestive to me of projecting their disowned and distorted shadow onto feelers.

    I wonder, though, if it ever works the other way. Do feelers ever act out thinker fantasies? (I guess that's another thread/poll.)
    Brilliant!

  8. #188
    Senior Member Alpha Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja
    Alpha, I've reviewed my threads and I see no where where I have said that "a heart should be worn on one's sleeve." I certainly don't believe that's a wise thing to do.
    By being unclear of what you actually were talking about, you seemed to be debating the validity of my point, by negating it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anja
    See, what I was doing was offering you a suggestion that may help you in getting your ideas across in a way which will encourage others to sit up and listen. I would guess that everyone would like help in that area, including myself.
    Ohh, this shiznit is beginning to make sense now. Next time, please, be direct. I don't like it when people beat around the bush, it wastes my time, and respect towards the other person.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Rereading. "The word should does not imply that there is only one way. . ."

    What dictionary are you using?
    Apparently you are not using any of the standard ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelTao View Post
    Bwa ha ha, thank you!

    Ironically, a true thinker would really be looking at feelers dispassionately and acceptingly rather than feeling negative emotions about feelers - apparently emotions such as disdain, fear, dislike, aversion, annoyance, etc.

    Interesting you picked the word demonize. I don't know how deeply you thought about your word choice, but it is suggestive to me of projecting their disowned and distorted shadow onto feelers.

    I wonder, though, if it ever works the other way. Do feelers ever act out thinker fantasies? (I guess that's another thread/poll.)
    No human is 100% T/F, so this is to be expected.

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  9. #189
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Alpha, I'm not going to apologize to you for wasting your time since you, as everyone here, have to manage that on your own.

    I will say that I am sorry that my post was confusing to you. Sometimes I can be unclear. I'll make an effort to be as blunt as I can manage in the future should I post to you directly. I suggest that next you are uncertain about any of my posts I'll be glad to try to clear up any questions that you have before you make a decision. No waste of my time, at all.

    I'll add that I rarely waste my own time fussing over people's respect for me. None of my business! Works for me.

    I'm all for clear communication. . .
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #190
    Senior Member Martian Manifesto's Avatar
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    Default Ts vs Fs

    I don't know about all T vs F but I have a lot of experience with INFJ friends and INTJ friends (have a bunch of both)....in general I find my INTJ friends a bit chilly emotionally but not in a bad way...and they can be a bit on the rough side...but this doesn't seem to bother me as much as it does my INFP girlfriend....she finds their interaction style much more "mean" than I do...I find it oddly charming and calming....

    ...sometimes I don't want to be calmed, I want to be understood....then I usually go for an INFJ or INFP...but once the emotionally charged elements have been handled, then I like to vet things with my INTJs...they are better at "vetting"...so for me it is more of a "what is being addressed" and "what stage/arena are we in"...

    My thoughts/feelings gain strength and validity from my NF friends which is vital in the beginning...but I value the NTs very much because they make my visions/ideas/feelings/concepts more "complete"...which is vital (if you are a J) I think

    BUT...I would be VERY CAREFUL about bringing "raw" stuff to my T friends...my INTJ friends are all very considerate of my F and my "raw stuff...feeling and intuitions" but they don't do the best job of "nurturing"...

    So long story short, I think both are great and necessary

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