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  1. #211
    Senior Member SillyGoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    My theories have come from a recognition of patters and association with feeling people as a whole. Through experience, time, and an ability to quickly sum up individual capabilities I have decided that feelers are capable of the most beautiful and most ugly actions ever taken. Being that desires or emotions can be quite unpredictable this ability to disregard rational thought for feeling creeps me out. I have experienced first hand with many feelers that they react off of feeling before getting the whole picture much to the dismay of others at which point they only rely on the justification of their feelings for a sense of validation. This makes feelers ticking time bombs in my opinion.
    Ok.

    How old are you?

    How old were these supposed feelers?

    How do you know the people you've studied are feelers?

    How do you know that the people you've studied are healthy feelers?
    "My mom told me there was a weirdo on every bus, but I never could find him." Emo Phillips

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    We seem to have gotten slightley off course here. I was not trying to establish t vs f. What I was trying to understand is how someone can put feeling over thought without seeing themselves as selfish or immature.
    The problem is you've made assumptions before asking and then clung to those assumptions. Why would being motivated by feeling be any more or less selfish than being motivated by thought? It really comes down to the character of the individuals and how they apply their feeling or thought. It could go either way in either a feeler or a thinker.

    I stated my thoughts because I was hoping if you understood how I got there you may be able to find some thread of logic that could explain the not so dark side of feelings.
    You didn't use any logic to come to the decision that feeling was always going to be a selfish expression of feeling, you made an assumption. This is the basic problem here. You failed to use logic and yet you're castigating feelers for lack of logic.

    Instead I was barraged with various well youre no better statements rather than arguments for the use of feeling dominace over thought further enhancing my conclusions that feelings distort situations.
    If you'd come and asked reasonably, it would have seemed that you could be reached reasonably. As it was, you presented your post in disrespectful terms and in a very flip manner, so you got some answers in the same vein and it's mostly been tongue-in-cheek and light. Nobody seems bent out of shape just amused.

    Your question has been asked here before far more reasonably and open to hearing the Feeler side.

    it is said that ENTPs do not understand feelings in themselves or others and I think that rings true to me. But I see that when circumstances are personalized the view from the outside is distorted an it inhibits the making of a true value judgment. Or what is best for all in the overall long and short of it. When feelers enter the picture its like they are tampering with evidence or demanding personalization that is not my responsibility. Hence the selfish nature of feelers.

    When we are small we often react off of instinct or feeling. As we develop our thought process over rides and refines such natures. Just because giving a child an entire box of cookies to eat makes them happy it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Thought has to override desires or feelings. That is part of growing up hence the immature factor.

    The adult who cares for that child, if a feeler may very well deny them the box of cookies based on feeling, they want what is best for the child and too much junk is not what is best. You're mistaking feeling for lack of self-control. A feeler may have good or bad self-control.

    A person may have many feelings all at once and need to sort out which is best to follow. You've assumed that means always following the one linked to self-interest and you haven't proved a rationale for why that's a valid assumption.

  3. #213
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyGoose View Post
    Ok, so I've seen a few posters respond to your original post without a direct reply from you...I will do it from my perspective to try to reach some ground with you.

    To start with, you're assuming that feelers only go with what they feel like at the moment. This is not true. I tend to look at everything in a situation to sum up my feelings. And I do think about how I am feeling and think about the situation to take my course of action.

    Example -- If everyone wants to order lunch right NOW, but Sally won't be in the office for another 10 minutes....I will make sure we wait until Sally gets to the office to order so that one person isn't left out. So, yeah, 7 people had to wait an extra 10 minutes for lunch...but okay, Sally wasn't excluded.

    You are also assuming that feelers all deal and feel the same way about everything.

    Personally, I'm more of the type who considers other people's feelings before my own. Even at times when I should be really upset with someone, I really try hard to keep connecting with them and meeting somewhere with them (usually I end up budging more than halfway.)

    Also, I've never used the excuse that "I felt like it." While I may not leave any feelings that I may have about the situation out of it and only provide a, b, c.....I will probably give MORE information about the why of what I did than a rational.

    To me, it is irrational to not consider everyone's feelings before making a decision that could affect people. Granted you don't need to run every single thing past every person, but if you know a decision is going to affect someone than I think it is logical to think about how it is going to affect them and whether they would like it or not or how they react.

    Now, I know I didn't quite answer your questions in the original post. Honestly though, I don't see how they can be questioned as they don't even really directly pertain to just feelers. It almost seems to me that an immature person that you've had problems with inspired this thread.
    A lot of this makes sense some doesn't.

    When I make a decision it comes down to simple math how does this affect everone and what are the ratios for each senario. I don't personalize things so much.

    Thank you for your post.

  4. #214
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    And we have indicated that much of this ticking bomb stuff tends to be more from immaturity of feelers which can be quite a large number depending on who you are around. I think both sides of this discussion are having trouble understanding what the other side is saying. Your opinion is not invalid when you do not take into account maturity. What is there further to discuss?
    I agree most of the feelers I met may have been imature and am now seperating those conclusions I'm head from f to mentality. I would like to experience feelers with high consiousness levels. I have a new view and goal in mind.

  5. #215
    Senior Member SillyGoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    A lot of this makes sense some doesn't.

    When I make a decision it comes down to simple math how does this affect everone and what are the ratios for each senario. I don't personalize things so much.

    Thank you for your post.
    Ok, so what doesn't make sense to you? Honestly, lets after 20 some odd pages get some where

    Do you mean why feelers "personalize" things?
    "My mom told me there was a weirdo on every bus, but I never could find him." Emo Phillips

  6. #216
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I would like to experience feelers with high consiousness levels.
    Can you explain what you mean by "high consciousness" levels? When I hear this term I most oft think of mysticism, higher enlightenment, new age type jargon. I don't want to assume this is what you mean.

  7. #217
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    Yes it is counter productive to personalize situations if the better way is to cater to the situation itself. If a bad situation fix it. If it is good let all enjoy. Personalizing heaps an unrealistic burden onto ones shoulders that is far from admirable and easily irritating.

    If someone made a whole group wait to order lunch for the sake of one person I would find it rediculous. I would order my own lunch and be done with it.rather than resenting the late person or the boss who wanted to sacrifice mine time for the sake of others. But I am not a "team player" everyone should be responsible for their own lunch.

  8. #218
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    just admit you were wrong and they'll go away.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #219
    ThatGirl
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    On second thought just call sally

  10. #220
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    could do, but I'd ask alice.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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