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  1. #121
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    i didn't say she was right. i said i got what she was saying.

    for instance, i didn't assume she started the thread or had an observation, right or wrong, because some F must have broken her heart.
    I didn't assume that either, I read it on this board. She went straight from that thread to this one and said basically the same things here about Feelers that she did about her Feeler BF.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    For the sake of this discussion. Lets assume that the OP was inspired by a bad experience with an F. Just like you once were led to have negative feelings about Ts due to bad experiences with them.

    In your case, it was only an emotional reaction.

    In this case, it is an emotional reaction, but not only that. It is also an argument for the existence of the vices of Feelers mentioned in the OP.

    The emotional reaction bit is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not the statement made is true. Above we see an argument for why making decisions based on Feelings is irresponsible. We have not yet seen an argument for the vices of Thinkers from you.

    For this reason, we cannot hold the two claims side by side.
    You won't see an argument for the "vices" of thinkers from me. I already admitted it was a failed attempt to search for a solid, sure way of avoiding pain in life by placing an extreme view on the situation and people.

  2. #122
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I didn't assume that either, I read it on this board. She went straight from that thread to this one and said basically the same things here about Feelers that she did about her Feeler BF.
    yeah, actually, i should have made it clearer that i didn't mean you personally. i assumed you had a good reason for being suspicious as to what was behind it as i've found you to be pretty reasonable.

    when i said it, i was only using that as an example of what i've seen others do without having a good reason (like factual background) to think that. i've seen that happen quite a few times. a T asks a question that hints at something unfavorable about Fs, and Fs come back with, "awww, one broke your heart!! poor thing!!! does someone need a hug?????? " thus dismissing the Ts genuinely honest question completely.

    like you can only say 'bad' things (for lack of a better word) if you too are an F.
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  3. #123
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Think of it this way.

    I heard a statistic once that about 75% of women are feelers and 45% of men.

    This can make thinkers rather lonesome. One can only be called an 'unfeeling psychopath' so many times before it starts to get under one's skin.
    2/3 of women and 1/3 of men is one I got out of a book published 2 years ago. I think 45% is too high honestly.

  4. #124
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    First of all don't be offended by the title I just thought it was funny.

    F people creep me out. I don't understand them. I see making decisions off of your feelings as selfish and irrisponsible. The worst excuse ever, "I felt like it", like that matters. If people justify their actions according to their feelings where is the line that says what you were feeling is wrong. It seems immature. How is putting your feelings on someone else productive to anything? Where is the self control? You cant argue against what someone is feeling and asking someone to take your feelings into account is like asking them to cater unobjectively to you.

    I am not trying to make people mad here I am trying to understand. What makes you all tick?
    Oddly enough, even though I am a Feeler, I understand what you mean and have experienced this myself. I think both Thinkers and Feelers have to be responsible in how they impose their thinking or feeling on others. Thinkers aren't always responsible in this way either.

  5. #125
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I can see how a thinker would become frustrated with having to watch what they say around certain people. I find myself frustrated with overly sensitive people as well and communicating with certain thinkers here is refreshing for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    a T asks a question that hints at something unfavorable about Fs, and Fs come back with, "awww, one broke your heart!! poor thing!!! does someone need a hug?????? " thus dismissing the Ts genuinely honest question completely.
    When I was younger I would react this way often to others. I felt as it was my duty to make people feel good about themselves probably because I was insecure and wanted the affection back. Now I am much more realistic and while I don't mind being there for people when it's convenient, it's not my job to uplift people outside of work. I get just as annoyed with the scenario you've describe above as you do and prefer for people to tactfully say what they mean.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    First of all don't be offended by the title I just thought it was funny.

    F people creep me out. I don't understand them. I see making decisions off of your feelings as selfish and irrisponsible. The worst excuse ever, "I felt like it", like that matters. If people justify their actions according to their feelings where is the line that says what you were feeling is wrong. It seems immature. How is putting your feelings on someone else productive to anything? Where is the self control? You cant argue against what someone is feeling and asking someone to take your feelings into account is like asking them to cater unobjectively to you.

    I am not trying to make people mad here I am trying to understand. What makes you all tick?
    Does being an F mean focusing on emotion? Every person has similar hardware in their brain to produce emotional responses. I understand the different cognitive styles to reflect more how emotions and all thought are processed. There are T's who make decisions for self interest alone, although they might be less likely to label it "I felt like it". From what I understand, the F function has to do with understanding internal systems and those that can't be objectively measured. F reasoning is likely to address issues of beauty, emotion, perception, etc. F cognitive processing has to do with understanding the illogical or systems with fuzzy boundaries, which are based on individual perspective. Emotions are a subset of this overall subjective train of thought, but are not the single ruling force.

    The above is at least my understanding of it. I have been struggling with this whole T vs. F thing for some time. I have known individuals who are rather distilled versions of each, and that produces a consistent internal system, but there are so many people who fall inbetween who confuse the issue for me completely. When T's express ideas which personally define their self/ego, or when F's remain calm and detached amidst conflict in response to analysis of subjective systems at work, I start to wonder where the lines are really drawn and what both categories really define.
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  7. #127
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Oddly enough, even though I am a Feeler, I understand what you mean and have experienced this myself. I think both Thinkers and Feelers have to be responsible in how they impose their thinking or feeling on others. Thinkers aren't always responsible in this way either.
    ixney on the esponsiblerey that's a dirty dirty dirty word in these times.
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  8. #128
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I like the way you put it, but I disagree on F not being productive. If there was no feelers, there wouldn't be many groups that would stay together. People just wont survive without groups and their organization is very much feeling based.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    +1. Diverse groups of specialized people increase productivity--in art, science, industry, etc.
    Well, of course. I probably should have made that clearer. I meant that they're not directly productive. Indirectly? They definitely make a difference. Feelings don't directly contribute to getting an impersonally defined task done (which is what Ts are interested in), per se, but they are (to a degree) the source of the energy and cohesion/agreement needed to do so.

    You might say that Thinking is part of a machine or computer that operates in a particular way, Feeling is the fuel or energy that powers such a thing.

  9. #129
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel De Mazarin View Post
    Many thousands of years ago... ancient Indians, both Vedantic and Buddhist, told us that being in touch with our selves, including our emotional selves, would enable us to change not only ourselves, but also the world. They operated not 'mystically', but experimentally and rationally, to come to this insight, though they also opened themselves up to feel themselves and the world around them, thus enabling their intellectual insights to come to fruition... Other people in other times and places have come to the same conclusions by similar means...

    Today, quantum physicists are reluctantly telling us the same thing.

    So I'd say Feeling is not only all-too-human (which should recommend it most highly), but also all-too-important to be dismissed as lightly as some are wont to do... <ahem, Bluewing>
    What you are describing here is rational (Thinking) analysis of Feeling. Most Fs do not do this, they are merely ruled by their torrential passions.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post




    You won't see an argument for the "vices" of thinkers from me. I already admitted it was a failed attempt to search for a solid, sure way of avoiding pain in life by placing an extreme view on the situation and people.
    Then the bottom line the view you had of Thinkers is false, and the view she has of Feelers is true. Your reasoning for attributing negative qualities to Thinkers was 'I felt like it', as described in the OP. ThatGirl's claim has a rational foundation.


    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Making decisions based only on the emotions of the moment is almost always a bad idea for long-term happiness. There are a lot of factors that go into making a good decision. How one is feeling right now is only one of those factors and, IMO, not a very big one.
    Maybe not a very big one for you as you're not a radical F.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I didn't assume that either, I read it on this board. She went straight from that thread to this one and said basically the same things here about Feelers that she did about her Feeler BF.
    What is the relevance of this? She is not talking about her ex Feeler BF. She is only talking about an idea concerning the Feeling type.
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  10. #130
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Then the bottom line the view you had of Thinkers is false, and the view she has of Feelers is true.
    I would say that the view I had was true for some thinkers and the view she has of feelers is true for some feelers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    ThatGirl's claim has a rational foundation.
    She's certainly wrapped it up as if it were a rational foundation but she's scarely made the case that it is the case for all feelers, nor has she made an adequate case that all thinkers are immune to having flawed logic.

    I like to say that her choice of lanugage reveals a feeling source for her post. The creeps is more of a "it feels like" type of a statement. Whether she did so as a joke or not, the fact that it came to her as title is very telling.

    I think the most troubling aspects of the Feeler/Thinker divide are those people who are unbalanced too much in either direction. The feeler who doesn't apply logic and the thinker who fears/distrusts the shadow F side and yet is possessed by it again and again and unwittingly uses logic to justify its dictates.

    It's the extremes that cause most of the difficulties in this world. That's the view I am coming to more and more.

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