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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I like the way you put it, but I disagree on F not being productive. If there was no feelers, there wouldn't be many groups that would stay together. People just wont survive without groups and their organization is very much feeling based.
    +1. Diverse groups of specialized people increase productivity--in art, science, industry, etc.

  2. #102
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    First, I don't think there is any such thing as a person being really objective.

    Second, 'logic' in decision making is about efficiency, IOW, what is the best way to achieve my goal, but making a choice about what goal you pursue is always based on a value judgment. The logic is just a means to an end and your selfishness or lack there of is only as good as the altruism/consideration of your goal.

    Utilitarianism might be considered a 'logical' kind of value system, but how does one define what is the greatest good for the greatest number of people? Must one not make a value judgment?

    "I felt like it" is a totally lame reason to make a decision no matter your type unless the decision is about something as trivial as choosing what flavor of ice cream you want.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #103
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    I always find it easiest to understand things through metaphors and examples. If one of our more creative members were to create a few simple scenarios that require us to make a decision, we could then probably see the difference between a feelers approach to that of a thinker. The catch is, the designer of the scenario must really be detailed about the situation, and the people responding must be very detailed in their responses.

    How about it? Does anyone have any nice scenarios that we can respond to, in hopes of comparing the maybe different approaches of Ts vs. Fs?

  4. #104
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Think of it this way.

    I heard a statistic once that about 75% of women are feelers and 45% of men.

    This can make thinkers rather lonesome. One can only be called an 'unfeeling psychopath' so many times before it starts to get under one's skin.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #105
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Heh, being a feeling male doesn't exactly exempt you from people calling you things that get under your skin, trust me....
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  6. #106
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    First of all don't be offended by the title I just thought it was funny.

    F people creep me out. I don't understand them. I see making decisions off of your feelings as selfish and irrisponsible. The worst excuse ever, "I felt like it", like that matters. If people justify their actions according to their feelings where is the line that says what you were feeling is wrong. It seems immature. How is putting your feelings on someone else productive to anything? Where is the self control? You cant argue against what someone is feeling and asking someone to take your feelings into account is like asking them to cater unobjectively to you.

    I am not trying to make people mad here I am trying to understand. What makes you all tick?
    There is no rationality behind this.

    They simply do what they feel is right. Fs with a well developed T however, are slightly different. They are value driven, but not ruled by their feelings. Unlike Ts, they prefer not to make decisions based on what appears to be of highest utility to the given situation (though they could because of their proficiency with thinking), but rather envision their ideal self. They then use logic to make sure they are as in tune with that self as possible.

    This is irresponsible in the regard that it has the potential ignores the many important aspects of the current situation which may be irrelevant to their personal quest for the ideal self. This kind of decision making is most common among INFJs, the most Thinking oriented of NFs. This may be irresponsible, but not nearly as much as the behavior of hard-core Fs, theirs is altogether whimsical.

    However, the only thing Feelers without a well developed Thinking function could say is that their Feelings are valid and thats period. Must do as they feel no matter what.

    Is this a good idea? They are not concerned, as one needs thinking faculties to critically examine such a question. They by default assume it is a good idea in order to give affirmation to their feelings.
    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Sorry about your break up with a F'er. Yes, most logical thing is to swear off feelers for life and paint them with the broad brush of everything that went wrong with your lover. lol. I done the same thing years ago about thinkers without realizing then the difference between thinker and feelers in mbti terms.

    For the sake of this discussion. Lets assume that the OP was inspired by a bad experience with an F. Just like you once were led to have negative feelings about Ts due to bad experiences with them.

    In your case, it was only an emotional reaction.

    In this case, it is an emotional reaction, but not only that. It is also an argument for the existence of the vices of Feelers mentioned in the OP.

    The emotional reaction bit is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether or not the statement made is true. Above we see an argument for why making decisions based on Feelings is irresponsible. We have not yet seen an argument for the vices of Thinkers from you.

    For this reason, we cannot hold the two claims side by side.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  7. #107
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Think of it this way.

    I heard a statistic once that about 75% of women are feelers and 45% of men.

    This can make thinkers rather lonesome. One can only be called an 'unfeeling psychopath' so many times before it starts to get under one's skin.
    I wonder if those percentages are reliable. I remember reading that F and T is rather evenly distributed among the population as a whole but women generally test as F and men test as T. Who knows why this is, maybe they test to be what is socially acceptable of them.

  8. #108
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    The majority of my family are Ts and they are no more of a problem for me to deal with than the F. The only time I really have problems with Ts (usually online) is when they think they are being objective despite the evidence to the contrary and refuse to see other viewpoints.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #109
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    it probably could have been said better, thatgirl, but if it helps, i get what you were trying to say.

    that said, you should have known better. threads like these never ever end well.
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  10. #110
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Immature and narrow minded view you have there. Just as with other types, feelers have their valuable place in society.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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