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[NF] NFs, how do you deal with Thinking...

SolitaryWalker

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Your comments are all rather insulting.... you have yet again generalized and made assumptions about personality types without taking into account the individual. That drives me in sane purely insane!

I have never been one to make friends easily but when I do I am loyal, I don't pass judgment and I am not solely in it for what I think they can do for me but rather how I can help them and do for them.

You're loyal because unlike most ENFPs you dont have 65845-08480--054-805-8038-058-0-085-058-048 people in your social network and dont think like most of them do... in a way like... it doesnt matter what happens to the people you consider friends for now because you can have them all replaced at a snap of a finger...makes no sense to maintain friendships or work through them when problems happen...because its so much easier to just get new friends... and new is always better to an average ENFP...that Ne trully loves novelty...
 

SolitaryWalker

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I have never had to make impersonal judgments. What is the purpose of judgment if not to serve the person?


To solve problems/understand how the world works/instead of thinking that your fantasies is all you need..
 

SolitaryWalker

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That was a good post FL.

Except, I doubt you can really be thinking about a solid relationship with an average ENFP unless you got into their elite category, which tends to be difficult for an INTP. At least more difficult than with the INFP, simply because INFPs tend to have more in common with them.

As far as I am concerned though, most ENFPs will pretend to like you just to avoid problems and possibly even go so far as to mislead you into believing that you're getting closer to the 'non-disposable'category.

But then again, little would you know, they just start slowly drifting away without you having a clue why. Seems to me, unless they believe that they need you, not just enjoy you, you're marked for replacement unless you somehow manage to hit the 'safe heaven.'

I agree that INFPs are more likely to just blow up on you, yet again, I think its easier for you to work things out with them than with the ENFP. The ENFP, being in the same position would just build a wall between themselves and you and the friendship will begin to evaporate there, whilst the INFP, by blowing up on you will open the door for a confrontation to work things through. This may lead to honesty and clarity, which are essential to the INTP.

So I dont know if the ENFP has a one up on you there by having the ability to forego exploding on you in heated anger. Because what they do is much worse...they are being subtle about the same thing that the INFP is being vocal about..
 

Brendan

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This was my question to you in the last thread concerning the subject...

How do you cope with this being your third or fourth function when the world forces you too often to make impersonal judgments...
The world never forces me to make impersonal judgements unless we're talking about math or the sciences. Anyway, Thinking as a Jungian function usually only shows up in me when I'm joking or when I'm upset.
To solve problems/understand how the world works/instead of thinking that your fantasies is all you need..
Don't people solve problems and try to understand how the world works out of a natural human curiosity, or more often to better serve themselves and others?
You're loyal because unlike most ENFPs you dont have 65845-08480--054-805-8038-058-0-085-058-048 people in your social network and dont think like most of them do... in a way like... it doesnt matter what happens to the people you consider friends for now because you can have them all replaced at a snap of a finger...makes no sense to maintain friendships or work through them when problems happen...because its so much easier to just get new friends... and new is always better to an average ENFP...that Ne trully loves novelty...
Okay, so is Seawolf back or something?
 
R

RDF

Guest
That was a good post FL.

Except, I doubt you can really be thinking about a solid relationship with an average ENFP unless you got into their elite category, which tends to be difficult for an INTP. At least more difficult than with the INFP, simply because INFPs tend to have more in common with them.

As far as I am concerned though, most ENFPs will pretend to like you just to avoid problems and possibly even go so far as to mislead you into believing that you're getting closer to the 'non-disposable'category.

But then again, little would you know, they just start slowly drifting away without you having a clue why. Seems to me, unless they believe that they need you, not just enjoy you, you're marked for replacement unless you somehow manage to hit the 'safe heaven.'

I agree that INFPs are more likely to just blow up on you, yet again, I think its easier for you to work things out with them than with the ENFP. The ENFP, being in the same position would just build a wall between themselves and you and the friendship will begin to evaporate there, whilst the INFP, by blowing up on you will open the door for a confrontation to work things through. This may lead to honesty and clarity, which are essential to the INTP.

So I dont know if the ENFP has a one up on you there by having the ability to forego exploding on you in heated anger. Because what they do is much worse...they are being subtle about the same thing that the INFP is being vocal about..

Let me put it this way…

In my experience ENFPs like to keep their friends close so that they can keep their finger on the pulse of the relationship. In fact, they like their relationships so close that it can be kind of claustrophobic for their friends. Also, they often have a bit of a paranoid streak, and keeping people close reassures them that the relationship is solid. If circumstances create some distance in the friendship, sometimes it can awaken their paranoid streak; and that's when I've seen them grow cold on a relationship and drift away from a friend.

You mentioned that you were separated from your friend for a year. It may be that the separation awakened your friend's paranoia and it's hard for him or her to rebuild the friendship. Also, I've seen a case where an ENFP grew frustrated with an INTP friend who wanted to keep more distance between them than the ENFP preferred. It made the ENFP paranoid when he couldn't charm the INTP into a close relationship, and so he turned kind of cold toward the INTP.

INFPs, on the other hand, aren't as worried by distance. In fact, because they like to idealize relationships in their head, a little distance or a period of separation may actually benefit the relationship in the sense of "making the heart grow fonder." A too-close friendship may rub the INFP's nose in the daily irritations of the relationship and take away some of the luster of the relationship in the INFP's mind. A more distant friendship or even a period apart may benefit the relationship by giving the INFP time to rebuild the idealized version of the relationship in his mind.

So in that sense, an INTP and INFP may be more in synch in terms of surviving a separation or being comfortable with a more distant or off-and-on friendship. That's my own theory, anyway.

But other than that, I wouldn't doubt the quality of an ENFP's friendship. If anything, their friendship can be so strong and close that it becomes a little smothering (at least from my point of view). I think the main thing differentiating the friendship of INFPs and ENFPs (absent of any other problems) is how they react to personal distance and separation. Distance and separation can make an ENFP paranoid and ruin the relationship for them, while distance and separation can actually improve a friendship with an INFP and delay the onset of the stage when INFPs become disillusioned about the relationship and start putting a lot of minuses on the friendship scorecard.

So maybe you want to look at your friendship with your ENFP in that light. Your inability to cross the threshold into the "elite category" may have something to do with that, especially in light of the long separation that occurred recently.

It's true that ENFPs insist on having a lot of control over who becomes a friend and when they let friends into the inner circle. And it's true that they grow disillusioned and move on when a former friend won't play the role that they want. But from my experience it's not because they're ditzes or because they want to use their friends as stepping stones. I tend to see it as governed by their paranoid streak. Conditions for the friendship have to be right, or ENFPs get paranoid and lose interest in the friendship. Much as conditions have to be right so that INFPs can idealize their relationships for best effect. Just my theory, of course.

Note the following link, where ENFPs are linked with a tendency to Paranoid Personality Disorder: PTypes - Correspondence of PTypes, Keirsey, Enneagram, Psychiatric, and Astrological Types

FL
 

Brendan

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Suppose you've been friends with an NFP for 2 years. Then you get to the point where you're forced to part company for a year. Could it very easily be the case that you will be coming back to a very different person then you've known earlier?

Simply because their feelings about you changed for a reason that you don't understand?
People change over time. It's not an F thing.
 

niffer

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When it comes to close friends, yes, I do have that paranoid streak. The worst experience I've ever had in my life was when one of my close, close friends of 4 years suddenly and unexpectedly told me that she was not my friend anymore, and had been trying to tell me that our friendship was dying for years, but I "wasn't listening". That was pure hell, even though I had like 4385784375835838594735368375 friends. She stopped talking to me for two weeks. Then one day, I was sitting with some people*, feeling depressed, and she came over and hugged me, and said "Does Jenny need a hug? And that was the first time I cried in public, ever. Either way..we're friends again. Ever since I've been a little paranoid about her.


*note how I said "some people". I was actually referring to other friends, because friends are like neutral background-type people. Friendship is like the medium for me.

I make a lot of new friends all the time...if I think someone is shy then I will approach them multiple times until they become comfortable with me. But usually, if people don't come back to me to interact, then I'll take it as a sign of disinterest and step back. Especially if people talk amongst themselves and completely ignore me when I try to talk to them. And I do feel bad after for not being able to charm them into wanting to interact with me. It's a bit of an ego stab for me. But unless people practically ignore me, I will never ignore them.
 

Zergling

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You're loyal because unlike most ENFPs you dont have 65845-08480--054-805-8038-058-0-085-058-048 people in your social network and dont think like most of them do... in a way like... it doesnt matter what happens to the people you consider friends for now because you can have them all replaced at a snap of a finger...makes no sense to maintain friendships or work through them when problems happen...because its so much easier to just get new friends... and new is always better to an average ENFP...that Ne trully loves novelty...

How much actual experience/information to you have to back all this up? Based on seeing people day to day in my life, the general rules is that they do not follow all the stereotypes of a particular type (Otherwise classifying would be extremely easy.), so expecting certain people to act a certain way almost all the time because of "the Ne truly loves company", or some other such function description, is as or more likely ot be wrong than right.
 

niffer

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How much actual experience/information to you have to back all this up? Based on seeing people day to day in my life, the general rules is that they do not follow all the stereotypes of a particular type (Otherwise classifying would be extremely easy.), so expecting certain people to act a certain way almost all the time because of "the Ne truly loves company", or some other such function description, is as or more likely ot be wrong than right.

ja.
 

Zergling

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If you aren't talking about actual people, than there isn't anything you can actually say about the "average" ENFP, ENFJ, or any type, as the "average" will be the average of people with a particular type (Unless you were talking about some random group of ideas of types, which cannot be compared anyway, since the ideas exist in your head and will be different than what is in other people's heads, leaving no way to actually resolve the differences.)

It does seem we just have a repeat of a seawolfe character, only solitary walker is still another username, so most likely this is a different person with the same problems in their MBTI views.
 

niffer

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LOL @ Zergling. I thought everyone knew by now.
 

Brendan

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It does seem we just have a repeat of a seawolfe character, only solitary walker is still another username, so most likely this is a different person with the same problems in their MBTI views.
And the same writing... styl... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
 

Zergling

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Seawolfe already was using the solitary walker name, the bluewing name had a more aggressive type of personality than the seawolfe or solitary walker ones did, plus most forums I've been on have not looked kindly on people using several usernames.

It makes sense, but I'll only believe it if I see or hear it directly from someone who would know for sure.
 

Athenian200

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Well, I usually only use Thinking to serve Feeling (and I honestly use both to serve Ni), as Jung says, but I'm actually aware of logic even when it contradicts what I want. I just choose to ignore it in that instance.

As for how I decide when to terminate, progress, or begin a friendship, I have a set of rules, such as tolerating certain offenses, and not tolerating others, and how often I'll tolerate them, along with a definition of what I consider rude or improper. These rules are fairly fixed for me. The difference between this and logic is that these rules have nothing to do with efficiency or personal gain. They are based on my individual preferences, the things I find distasteful, etc. Also, in some rare cases, I'll make exceptions for certain individuals, but not others. It's arbitrary but organized.
 

heart

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Those were very good observations.

I think much of the same can even be said for ENTPs and ENFJ. ENTPs are more subtle because they are led by Extroverted Intuition. Extroverts tend to surround themselves by people that fill a hole in their lives and double task as their close friends. They could easily be replaced because they juggle many variables at the same time.

Yet Is, do not need this as they can get what the Es get from the outside, from within themselves.

Hence, an INFP will not drop you because something better has shown up. They dont need you like ENFPs may. They keep you around because they find you to be special as an individual, and if you are to be dropped, it will be personal, it will be because of something that you did, or perhaps that the friendship was never legitimate to begin with. As you said, perhaps the INFP discovers that the values that your friendship depended on with them have been replaced because they later were deemed undesirable by the INFP.

In short, if you ask the INFP for why they terminated you, you will get a very clear and a detailed answer. Yet with the ENFP, ENTP, and ENFJ, you probably wont, because there may not be an answer as the act may be totally arbitrary. That is, they simply found someone better and they no longer need you. As they never cherished you for who you are, just for what you gave, and in that case, you simply never evolved to the point where the INFP would start you off at---a relationship where they want you around because they deem for you to be special, and not because they have something to take from you.


As an adult, I always give several chances to a person before I cut them and I usually ask that they explain why they did the things they did, trying to see if I just misunderstood their motives or intent. I tell them what I need from them. I am always amazed at the people who won't listen to that as if I had said nothing. If they continue to step over my boundaries then I finally cut them. I am always amazed at how shocked some are...or pretend to be.
 

heart

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That was a good post FL.

Except, I doubt you can really be thinking about a solid relationship with an average ENFP unless you got into their elite category, which tends to be difficult for an INTP. At least more difficult than with the INFP, simply because INFPs tend to have more in common with them.


That's strange to hear you say that because I have clashed with most ENFP I interact with. Usually I irritate them by what they call: "focusing on sematics" :huh: or they assume I am *deeply depressed* and they go on a campaign to cheer me up which in turn ends up irritating me.
 

Totenkindly

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Usually I irritate them by what they call: "focusing on sematics" :huh: or they assume I am *deeply depressed* and they go on a campaign to cheer me up which in turn ends up irritating me.

Uggh. That is exactly what they tell me / do to me too. (Well, except for Targo...)

It sounds like a trend.
 

J1129

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For me, I swear I was INTJ when I was younger but grew into an INFJ by the age of 10 or so. But it was strange because I would make decisions rationally & out of concern for others. For example, when I had my tonsils removed at the age of 8, I was praised for being a quiet, easygoing patient because I didn't scream or have a tantrum at the hospital. But I acted that way because I wanted to both prevent conflict (F) & to let the operation run smoothly & acting throwing a tantrum would only make the process worse (T). I also used to be more critical when I was younger & less emotionally involved but gradually I changed. Nowadays I dread criticism & can become very emotionally involved in art, music, movies, etc
 
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