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  1. #21
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    FWIW the site that types people's cognitive functions based on facial expression places Joan Baez as a Fi-dom. If you know your popular/folk music history, then you know she is basically the queen of activism back in the 1960's and 1970's.

    Edit: I guess I'm a bit obsessed with this question because it hits home for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have the perspective of being an extreme Ni-dom INFJ with an extreme Fi-dom sister who is about the same age, same culture, and both in the creative arts. We are both idealistic, but have also had to reconcile a lot of darkness in reality. I think she is overall the more idealistic. We both express into reality primarily through creative expression, so she enacts her idealism onto the world continuously through her visual art. That is more personal and private than social activism which is far more the domain of any extrovert than either the INFJ or INFP. We both struggle with issues of the darkness of reality.

    I think there is this complex dichotomy for many idealists to struggle with desire goodness, kindness, and peace in the world, but to feel obliterated by the cruelty, falseness, and darkness. My view of reality is quite dark and every time I encounter information about suffering I want to change it - sometimes through kindness and sometimes by wishing I could be a terminator and take out the cruel people of the past. For example, I was recently reading about the neuro-psychiatrist who developed the electro-shock therapy. After I heard what he did to animals, I really wish I could go back in time and kill him. Is that idealism? Most sensitive NFs can get quite flooded by the hideousness of reality and have to cope by blocking it out in favor of viewing through rose-colored glasses, or acting upon it to try to fix things. Sometimes internal reconciliation of peace is the place to start.

    In a way I'm an idealist and when younger I would influence larger groups of people by having leaderships roles in high school and college, but now my idealism mostly makes me dream of living in isolation with another hermit and just trying to survive. I think the world is hideously dark, and I try to take in reality just as it is in order to be most skilled at choosing how to make it better within the realistic limits of my person. Because the external world affects me I have to retreat far too often to be a true activist. This is a core component of the INFJ descriptions - that need to suddenly retreat. I think it's the Fe-doms and Te-doms (based on Jung's descriptions) that are far more likely to act their internal ideas onto the world.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
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  2. #22
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    It's also worth noting the relationship between activism and idealism/realism.

    Over the years I have seen some of the most effective social activists are the realists. It doesn't take much idealism to see there are problems in the world and the majority of those problems have simple, concrete, direct solutions. Most suffering in the world could be fixed with a healthy bowl of soup, clothes, shelter, counseling, proper medical care, etc. ESFJs with their realism and strong connection to the concrete world are absolutely amazingly effective when they are activists.

    It's a misnomer to assume that INFJ and INFP, or even the ISFJ and ISFP are the core of activism. No, the sensitive, analytical, introverted, poetic types are all capable of idealism that is quite separate from the rigors and pragmaticism of activism. Also fwiw, the INFP is labeled as the "Idealist" according to MBTI.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
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  3. #23
    Member Evastover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomINTP View Post
    Having a bunch of ideas in your head isn't idealism. I have a bunch of ideas im my head, too. According to what @Southern Kross said, I would be just as idealistic. The difference is: I know I can't accomplish my ideals and I don't have the desire to do so (except for becoming a lawyer). An INFJ, on the other hand, DOES. They don't care if they can't accomplish their ideals. They do all in their power to do it anyway, because they have the desire to do so.
    If desire was irrelevant, everybody would be an idealist for every little thing they want. For example, if there's a kid that considers getting an ice cream for whatever reason, he would be an idealist just because he wants an ice cream, or? NO. This kid's not an idealist.
    I, uh, think you may have missed my point? I was just stating (in a whole bunch of unnecessary words, sorry bout that) that it's not a type-related matter (or rather, not directly type-related).

  4. #24

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    Both INFPs and INFJs are idealistic, but their idealsm is experienced differently by the types. INFJs are idealistic because of their Ni, they percieve the world subjectivly based on their subcioncius connections and expectations from the reality, that can be puerly internal and torn out from reality.
    INFPs are idealistic, because of their Fi. Even though their percieving of the external world is rather objective, they deeply held internal value system make them idealistic when it comes to dealing with the external enviroment.

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