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  1. #1
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Default Why do I experience the intense need to be alone while still wanting to guide others?

    I frequently feel like I would rather claw my eyes out with a fork than deal with people (that was an attempt at dark humor), though I also feel an intense need to aid and be of service to others. I find interaction with others an expense of energy, yet I can speak at length about ideals like compassion and authenticity and the quest for knowledge. I would not consider myself shy, yet it feels unnatural to exert much force when I speak or interact with others. I love others, but feel like I need to keep my distance to stay feeling well. I have violent mood swings, but present a placid face to the public. I want to help others, but I will harm somebody if I can justify a net good will result (this last one almost never happens anymore as the goal now is to minimize harm done while keeping ideals like compassion, honesty, and openness alive.)

    How do these conflicting trait pairs I possess reconcile?

    Am I a people person or a recluse?












    On a less self-centered note, does anybody else have contradictions about themselves they would like to post? I will try to help you reconcile, too.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
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  2. #2
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    Does being an extrovert mean you love being constantly exposed to the rampant and raw feelings of others without discrimination? You may love others but you probably don't love the emotional dumps many people spew forth as their main form of communication. Is your placid facade a strong enough armour to protect you from the barrage of insecurities and negative feelings that most people clothe themselves in?

    I doubt you are a recluse and I wouldn't wish it upon you. It's not a satisfying life. I wouldn't be one if I had a choice. But maybe you would be better in more intimate communication with fewer people than in the maelstrom of large groups and constant conflict?

    And it's not self-centred to seek assistance or even just a chat. We all need that.

    My contradictions? I'm a misanthrope but I want to assist people wherever I see the need. I don't love humanity, but I care for individuals. I want others to be happy but my manner of communication often makes others irritated and unhappy. I cannot lie to people so they can feel better, I want to solve their problems so they can feel better, but they'd much prefer the lie.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    ...because you're an introvert?

    Me thinks you're over thinking this. What you're feeling is something I imagine every introvert feels, at least from time to time with varying degrees of intensity.

    *edited because my proof-reading sucks*
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson
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  4. #4
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    I also somewhat doubt ENFP, man. What makes you think you're Ne>Fi (if that hasn't already been extensively discussed)?
    Also, why 6 over 9 and 2?
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  5. #5
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    I also somewhat doubt ENFP, man. What makes you think you're Ne>Fi (if that hasn't already been extensively discussed)?
    Also, why 6 over 9 and 2?
    Those two feel roughly even for me. I/E has always, always, been a coin-flip for me. I started out with INFP, then I went with ENFP a while, then I went back. Neither one fits fully, as I have social as well as reserved moments. I can act in a play, but then I need quiet time...ect.
    I would say that I was an Ambivert as a child and have more more towards introversion with age, though this isn't really a bad thing. I say 6 over the other two because I worry A LOT. I wonder if my colleagues at work are being honest with me, and I worry a lot about losing my jobs when I get them...and though I've lasted a while at this one, I still worry that I might be angering some higher-up that will boot me. I guess that is the selfish side of why I am a perpetual people-pleaser even though I'm not too crazy about the social life.

    That brings up something else I never thought about till I started regular yoga a few days ago (though a Unitarian Universalist sermon planted the seed): I reward myself for helping others, but punish myself for helping myself. Both the one UU I listened to and the yoga I am learning call this "unbalanced thinking."

    P.S: I also need some connection to 7 without actually being one, as I feel a tugging in my gut to explore new things, but I yield to security when it comes up and stick to routine instead. I get my fix by exploring ideas because it feels a little safer than say, skydiving into the amazon river to battle crocodiles with your bare hands...THAT would be dangerous indeed.

    The discussions on E/I I have here have generally pointed to extraversion because I do not have the fixed sense of self INFP has, appearently.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
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  6. #6
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Neither.

    You are not the descriptor though a whole load of descriptors can be applied to you.

    I am an INTP who suffers from quite bad rage at points, something I am not proud if but recognise nonetheless.

    I spend my work hours helping people and a few of my home hours too. Then I go online and blow stuff up and rage at people. Neither is me but both are elements of who I am.

    Could I end up hurting someone? Sure, given adequate motivation. Does that mean I'm not motivated to help people? Nope. It just means I get frustrated as all hell sometimes.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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  7. #7
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Haha. Reminds me of something I just read the other day, something one of the characters in Brothers Karamazov says:

    "The more I love humanity in general the less I love man in particular. In my dreams, I often make plans for the service of humanity, and perhaps I might actually face crucifixion if it were suddenly necessary. Yet I am incapable of living in the same room with anyone for two days together. I know from experience. As soon as anyone is near me, his personality disturbs me and restricts my freedom. In twenty-four hours I begin to hate the best of men: one because he’s too long over his dinner, another because he has a cold and keeps on blowing his nose. I become hostile to people the moment they come close to me. But it has always happened that the more I hate men individually the more I love humanity."
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.
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  8. #8
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    I"m thinking you have an idealized view of humanity but your own experience with individual members is very different. I like elephants in theory, but I doubt I'd feel the same if I actually had to deal with them.

    I think there are ways to help the masses without actually interacting with individual members. For instance, you can fund raise and help out that way.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #9
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I"m thinking you have an idealized view of humanity but your own experience with individual members is very different. I like elephants in theory, but I doubt I'd feel the same if I actually had to deal with them.

    I think there are ways to help the masses without actually interacting with individual members. For instance, you can fund raise and help out that way.
    Unfortunately, my strength is dealing with people, and I am weak in everything else due to a tendency to not be able to keep track of anything or to multitask without screwing things up. I can very easily pretend to like somebody even if I don't. The way I see it, I am just trading my time for money. I may not like any job, but with the money I get, I can buy happiness: good food, vacations, luxury items. THAT is what makes me happy, but I always was ashamed to admit it and it goes against common wisdom. Helping others just makes me temporarily feel a little better inside, even if I am miserable the whole way. I guess just seeing the suffering is over is what I like. THAT, and luxury. I'm going to try it all in this life.

    The meaning of life is that it is the fine game of Nil.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
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  10. #10
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I frequently feel like I would rather claw my eyes out with a fork than deal with people (that was an attempt at dark humor), though I also feel an intense need to aid and be of service to others. I find interaction with others an expense of energy, yet I can speak at length about ideals like compassion and authenticity and the quest for knowledge. I would not consider myself shy, yet it feels unnatural to exert much force when I speak or interact with others. I love others, but feel like I need to keep my distance to stay feeling well. I have violent mood swings, but present a placid face to the public. I want to help others, but I will harm somebody if I can justify a net good will result (this last one almost never happens anymore as the goal now is to minimize harm done while keeping ideals like compassion, honesty, and openness alive.)

    How do these conflicting trait pairs I possess reconcile?

    Am I a people person or a recluse?

    On a less self-centered note, does anybody else have contradictions about themselves they would like to post? I will try to help you reconcile, too.
    This is really complex, so I realize there must be a great deal of context I can only imagine when reading it.

    Psychology discusses the idea that we have a real and ideal self, and when these are too far out of alignment, it causes cognitive dissonance. I think the same thing can happen socially - we can have an ideal and real sense of society that can cause inner dissonance when they are too different. I suspect this is an especially tough issue for NFs, because it is our nature to be idealists in the more subjective realm.

    It helps me to realize that whatever acts of good or pain I can justify to myself is a similar process to what others do when they cause help or harm. Most people feel justified when they are hurtful to others. In their mind it is typically justice - even for extremely cruel people. I also try to realize that if I had lived their life, then I might be justifying the same sorts of harm on others. When I do kind acts in the world, it is reassuring to me that humanity as a whole has this capacity.

    I understand the feeling of not being able to take too much social interaction, and I shut down very quickly when confronted with nonsense, ego-based, cruel behaviors from people. It makes me feel like I'm dizzy and nauseated in a house of funny, distorted mirrors. It frightens me to think I'm the same basic being, but just subjected to a different set of experiences and conditions. I can get very depressed about nonsense and cruelty, and so my main way to connect to people is through charitable acts because it sometimes calms the other person down and brings out the best in them. I have a gotten angry when hurt on a personal level, but the cost is so high to me because I'm wracked with guilt over any outburst, even if everything I said was true. My socialization tends to be really structured, as in teaching or performance groups. I can relate to your need for some type of social connection, but the inability to be "social".
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
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