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  1. #1
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Default Good and Evil, versus Ethics

    Edit: I'm wondering specifically about INFP's.

    Which do you value more?
    Why?
    Can one exist without the other?
    If ethics is not enough, why? Is a belief in absolute good and evil necessary?
    Can one be "good" and an atheist or pantheist or polytheist?

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    Chumped. Obsidius's Avatar
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    Ethics, "Good and Evil" is a false dichotomy. Acts are not pure, in any sense, but subjectively assigned to "good", "bad", "permissible", etc. However, as far as our perceptions of good and evil go, I do believe that they are relative. We compare good acts to perceived evil ones, and vice versa, we adopt a framework by which we make such comparisons. This framework differs from person to person, it is subjective. So yes, of course an atheist, pantheist or polytheist can "do" good, they do good by their own metric.
    Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man.
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  3. #3
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Can one be "good" and an atheist or pantheist or polytheist?
    Absolutely.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, but I was specifically wondering what INFP's think. It's good to have input from everyone, but this was inspired by a frustrating conversation with an INFP who will not consider anything but absolute good and evil, and I wanted to know what percentage of INFP's he represents.

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    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Edit: I'm wondering specifically about INFP's.

    Which do you value more?
    Why?
    Can one exist without the other?
    If ethics is not enough, why? Is a belief in absolute good and evil necessary?
    Can one be "good" and an atheist or pantheist or polytheist?
    Thanks for the tag but I need more info here. Perhaps expanding on your conversation would be helpful.

    Where do you think ethics comes from, btw?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #6
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Thanks for the tag but I need more info here. Perhaps expanding on your conversation would be helpful.

    Where do you think ethics comes from, btw?
    Ok, the debate was between ethics being good enough or the necessity to believe in absolute good an evil, for him stemming from a religious origin.

    I argue that all value is subjective and ethics are based on objectively measurable data, i.e. what is good for a human (or other living being) in terms of well-being. They aim for the same consequences. So it is not necessary. He argues something along the lines of "by the fruits you shall know it" and that unethical behavior can be reasoned with and evil has to be destroyed. I say that's an issue of response, not with the thing being responded to. It just seemed very irrational to me and I was hoping some INFP's would think along the same lines as me and not require a belief in absolute good and evil or a universal force to validate it. I don't want to generalize something incorrect about INFP's, but it may be the case that they are in fact more likely to think this way, so I wanted to find out.

  7. #7
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    I think the correlation is more between being religious (in a mainstream sense) than personality type. Religions usually come with a moral/ethical code which is perceived by their believers to be absolute.

    So you question really is: And INFP's more or less likely to be religious? I think NF's in general are among the more religious types, so most of them probably think like your friend.

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    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    I think the correlation is more between being religious (in a mainstream sense) than personality type. Religions usually come with a moral/ethical code which is perceived by their believers to be absolute.

    So you question really is: And INFP's more or less likely to be religious? I think NF's in general are among the more religious types, so most of them probably think like your friend.
    Maybe so. I was thinking it had something to do with Fi and inferior Te making things absolute, but maybe Fe can do it just as well. You're probably right in that it's a deeper thing that people manifest according to their different personality types. Still though, it seems as though certain functions in certain orders would be more likely to think outside the box and more in terms of holism than dualism.

  9. #9
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default Good and Evil, versus Ethics

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Edit: I'm wondering specifically about INFP's.

    Which do you value more?

    It depends upon my focus of attention and my desirous. I have a joyful response to recognising good, I have a reactionary response to evil and also a tolerance because I recognise the word evil as meaning harmful and there are degrees of harm and I can perceive it with different lenses which provide different views (six instinctual variants) and there what is viewed can be thought via different values so it is easy to dismiss evil if it is not an emendate threat unto myself.

    I am most likely therefor reliant on ethics because it builds a logical path to travel along my life's journey so that shocking thoughts and feelings from the effects of the duality of order and chaos that are related to entropy and the ability to experience the inner entropic force, don't induce fear and a longing for self abandonment from my own awareness and or conches ness ,within awareness when perceiving evil , like humanities dark side in action.

    Why?

    Can one exist without the other?

    I am a be leaver in the membrane theory and that at the hart of the action entropy and creation are a natural physics component to universal action.

    And within the explicate order meaning as a soul that is experiencing a life as a flesh and blood mortal being, we are venerable to the forces of entropy's effects.

    In away I see good and evil as a multiplicity and ethics as the third implicate creation of choice like the law of three. Ethics is a path of reconciliation reconciling a freedom of some degree of control over the two good and evil.

    This may seem strange but not all that is bereaved to be good is always good some times it is a fouls bias or an ignorance that leads to a perceived belief that some thing is good. E.g modern Industrial Age and free enterprise in a context of the planets well being as a living system hosting life in all its veering forms.

    If ethics is not enough, why?

    Ethics is ethics good is good evil is evil, in quantum realm from where the soul exist before and after life as an animal or mechanical man , the context of good and evil and ethics my naturally be of no higher relevance because the influence of entropy is of no threat at that level of experience because the physics are different, different conditions different quality of conches focus. Creation and destruction for the continuation of evolutions natural advancement maybe the order minds activity at that level. It's speculative.

    But they are my thoughts.

    Is a belief in absolute good and evil necessary?

    Yes and no it is good to have a contrasting context or at least it is natural to be able to perceive the contrast, but when absolute is a priority it can lead to absolute driven actions, ex stream reactionary actions. Can be dang erase ground. A health mind is not dependant on a fixated belief in a contrast of absolute good and evil a health mind is able to distinguish good and evil within a pragmatic context that is relevant to the secon stances and situation.
    E.g I though an apple at my friend because my friend was about to tern the TV Chanel to another to watch another TV program. Not only was my action good it was Nobel.


    Can one be "good" and an atheist or pantheist or polytheist?
    I will purchase a dictionary and get back to you. Speaking in tongs is the devils work. But I think secretively that your good.


    9 , 9w1 Sx/Sp , 936 , 9w8 4w5 5w6 , 1221 , D type , INFP


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    Wow look what I did ?? I can't decide is it good

  10. #10
    Senior Member Eluded_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Edit: I'm wondering specifically about INFP's.
    Morality, is an individual preference, it is often based upon the ideology of good and evil (ethics). If I had to make a choice between the two, my answer would be determined among two factors: 1) how far I want to be taken by my blinded emotions and 2) how much bullshit I can handle from marketed "truth" (dogma).

    Can one exist without the other?
    Morals and ethics often co-exist. It's difficult to have a functioning conscience if ethics (guidelines) weren't around to escort it.

    If ethics is not enough, why? Is a belief in absolute good and evil necessary?
    It helps simplify and define the entire picture. Subjectivity helps define objectivity (the undefinable)


    Can one be "good" and an atheist or pantheist or polytheist?
    Absolutely. Beliefs and actions aren't always coinciding. You can't measure a person's motive by what they advertise.
    “If you worry about what might be, and wonder what might have been, you will ignore what is.” -anonymous
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