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  1. #71
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post
    Ooh can you expand a little? Examples of situations in which the ENFJ and the ENFP would take opposing views and their differences really show as obvious...
    I don't know, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I've known a couple of ENFPs and we were brought together because of common views. We didn't get very close, but I felt a kinship with them.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  2. #72
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't know, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I've known a couple of ENFPs and we were brought together because of common views. We didn't get very close, but I felt a kinship with them.

    Actually I know several ENFP's and a few of them I'm very close to. I would like to hear others thoughts on how the two are different. I am definately different from my ENFP friends. I like to hear what others think the differences between the two are.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  3. #73
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    Actually I know several ENFP's and a few of them I'm very close to. I would like to hear others thoughts on how the two are different. I am definately different from my ENFP friends. I like to hear what others think the differences between the two are.
    based of life experience (which means small sampling, of course)

    *ENFJs can talk their way into anything, whereas ENFPs could if they wanted to, but generally give up because either a) they become interested in something else or b) don't want to push anyone and back off

    *ENFP finds place in life considerably later, they tend to stumble into it; ENFJ tends to commit and go-get-'er

    *ENFJs are generally loved but sometimes realllyyy tick people off and make enemies (although this is very disproportionate to the amount of people that they know, most love them); ENFPs generally just frustrate people a little bit here and there but everyone still loves them

    *ENFJs care about their looks; ENFPs throw on what smells clean and head out the door

    now i want to hear you, littlelostnf! more rather than less. and thoughts/questions as opposed to simply conclusions. just keep talkin'.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #74
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    based of life experience (which means small sampling, of course) now i want to hear you, littlelostnf! more rather than less. and thoughts/questions as opposed to simply conclusions. just keep talkin'.
    Gee be bossy why don't ya. ha!

    Hmm ok. Seems to me like there are less ENFJ NF's here than any other and so you've got a small sample to go from in terms of online ENFJ's you know. I don't know how many you know in real life but I will say this about your comments.....

    *ENFJs can talk their way into anything, whereas ENFPs could if they wanted to, but generally give up because either a) they become interested in something else or b) don't want to push anyone and back off
    1. Can ENFJ's be manipulative. Absoultely, if I wanted I'm sure I could get most people to do just about most of what I want them to. How scary and inauthentic is that?! VERY and I would really not be able to live with myself if I did that. My face is all scrunched up thinking about being like that. Why would you think an ENFP would give up. Actually in my experience the ENFP's I know are rather more persistant than I am and are definately the squeeky wheels that get the grease. They complain more, (push) they are more vocal about what they want and generally because of being so charming they get it. {Edit - In the above I'm talking making people do things that would not be beneficial for them but beneficial for me...and while I may see that something would be good for a person I am not the type of person to try to manipulate them into doing it. I may try to help them see that something could be better but I beleive in letting a person handle their own life..alot of times I won't say anything unless someone asks me directly "What do you think" or What should I do?" and when they ask the later I say well if you want to know what I think you should do.....which is alot different than telling them what they should do.}

    *ENFP finds place in life considerably later, they tend to stumble into it; ENFJ tends to commit and go-get-'er
    2. I would say that is true. However, ENFJ's don't always ness know exactly what they want early on. It takes them some time also. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't until my late 20's that I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up and took the steps I needed to do it. Once I commited I had no problem accomplishing it and I haven't looked back..but it did take me some time. ENFPs that I know. Yes for the most part they all stumbled onto what they are doing presently. They all have diff dreams but what they are doing works for now for them.

    *ENFJs are generally loved but sometimes realllyyy tick people off and make enemies (although this is very disproportionate to the amount of people that they know, most love them); ENFPs generally just frustrate people a little bit here and there but everyone still loves them
    I don't know Im so not trying to pass the buck here and I have to say I don't know many ENFJ's, 2 in my entire life as opposed to 8 ENFPs who I know very well and countless numbers of ESFJ's. Now the ESFJ's I know well (sorry ESFJ's) but what you said above generally happens to them. I hate to sound like I'm saying Ummm that's not us that's those ESFJ's but I really think people tend to confuse the two more often than not. The ESFJ's I know they have had the experience you talked about above. One ESFJ in particular I know really has had this happen to her multiple times. She never understands it and I see what the person she's reallyyy ticked off is saying but I also see that she doesn't understand that what she's done (whatever it is) really annoyed the person. When she annoys me or tries to manipulate me (which she is really good at) I either take a deep breath or plant my feet and I don't allow her to). Am I saying ENFJ's can't tick people off, of course not. However, based on my limited experience with the 2 I know they definately don't fit that, they more fit the frustrating people here and there with everyone still loving them...that fits in my case also.

    And last but not least and this one is the funniest....

    *ENFJs care about their looks; ENFPs throw on what smells clean and head out the door
    While I do care about what I look like I am so picky about what I put on. I don't want to look like everyone else and I definately go for a balance between "look at me look at me" weird and "Ms. Gap/Banana Republic average chick on the street". Two ENFPs I know are total opposites. One never comes out the house without completely matching and having every piece of her outfits totally together. The other throws her clothes on and hasn't a clue what looks good on her body. Two other ENFP's I know (males) are both very picky about what they wear and always look fantastic..and they aren't even gay . As far as the 2 ENFJ's I know. One of them is always neat but I'd like to nominate her for "What not to wear" she could wear anything and manages to look twice her age. The other...well in her teens she was a style maven but now with two kids just manages to put clothes on her body. Soooo I don't think (at least in my experience with ENFJ/Ps what you said above fits.

    Yes I have more but it's a beautiful Sat morning and I'm off to the city so more later.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  5. #75
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelostnf View Post
    Actually I know several ENFP's and a few of them I'm very close to. I would like to hear others thoughts on how the two are different. I am definately different from my ENFP friends. I like to hear what others think the differences between the two are.
    My brother's ENFP, my sister's ENFJ. She has a guilt complex the size of the universe, and gets gaslit and persuaded by people playing on that guilt, to get her to do just about anything. Not so my brother. He can spot bullshit a mile off, and doesn't fall for guilt trips even in the heat of the moment. On the contrary, he's the one usually using them to get what he wants from others!

    My sister also tries a lot harder, to please people by giving to them her time, money, patience, forgiveness etc, while my brother tries to please by generally showing off and making people laugh and enjoy themselves. She seems a lot more spiritual than he is.

    Although she's an intelligent and outspoken woman, she's been in two abusive relationships in a row, and I think she gets there because she gives in too easily to boyfriends' demands, the sorts of demands that abusive control freaks make with an aim of isolating and controlling you. Even when she finally gets sense talked into her and leaves these jerks, she puts up with them phoning her and won't just unplug the phone. She gets upset and talks about how she really could just give him another chance and try to make it work.

    Jack on the other hand, just goes for girls who will worship him, basically, and leads them along for years, working on them and improving them (as he sees it), before they split up and he does the whole 'staying friends' thing long beyond the point where everyone else can see it's not helping the girl to get over him.

    If she's not happy with a situation with somebody, she puts up with it and grumbles behind their backs, but only to people she knows won't say anything about it. If he's unhappy with a situation, he'll manipulate the people involved until he is.
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  6. #76
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin_Ransom View Post
    Ah! Now that is a very significant subject to me! The smile. The smile is one of the most subtly powerful gestures in human arsenal. A smile can relay a lot of things, but, for me, more often than not, it's usually a way of silently saying, "Hey, I don't know you, but here's to hoping that you have a good day anyway." Do I truly, deeply care for everyone I smile to? Not necessarily, but that doesn't mean I can't wish them well in passing. Of course, that's not my favorite usage of smiling. My favorite is the form that says, "Hey, keep your chin up. You're awesome, and I'm here for you."

    Yes. I like that smile.

    Wait, this isn't the "dissect the various forms and applications of smiles" thread.
    Wow I have to say I could not have said this any better. (YES I was suppose to be on a train to the city but I'm waiting for the next as a friend is running late so here I am again) ANYWAY I really relate about this smiling thing. My friends always say people talk to you because you smile at them always. Well why not. Why would I not smile at them. I've had more than one person stop me and say thanks just seeing someone/anyone with a smile on their face made me be able to face the day. Didn't cost me anything and made their day more pleasurable. I agree with your totally Elwin
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    My brother's ENFP, my sister's ENFJ. She has a guilt complex the size of the universe, and gets gaslit and persuaded by people playing on that guilt, to get her to do just about anything. Not so my brother. He can spot bullshit a mile off, and doesn't fall for guilt trips even in the heat of the moment. On the contrary, he's the one usually using them to get what he wants from others!
    Well I have to say I can spot the bull but depending on the situation I can fall for the guilt trips but I know what I'm getting into if and when I do. I agree that the ENFPs I konw usually do get what they want, much more than I do.

    My sister also tries a lot harder, to please people by giving to them her time, money, patience, forgiveness etc, while my brother tries to please by generally showing off and making people laugh and enjoy themselves. She seems a lot more spiritual than he is.

    Well the ENFPS (most of them) I know are also spiritual but def they please by making people laugh and enjoy themselves...slightly less sincere I think (at least the ones I know)

    Although she's an intelligent and outspoken woman, she's been in two abusive relationships in a row, and I think she gets there because she gives in too easily to boyfriends' demands, the sorts of demands that abusive control freaks make with an aim of isolating and controlling you. Even when she finally gets sense talked into her and leaves these jerks, she puts up with them phoning her and won't just unplug the phone. She gets upset and talks about how she really could just give him another chance and try to make it work.

    I can see a young ENFJ being in that situation. I think that an ENFJ who has developed their other functions well will be able to spot the storm clouds in that kind of relationship brewing and beat up themselves for getting involved but they also would be OUTTA THERE before it got worst.

    Jack on the other hand, just goes for girls who will worship him, basically, and leads them along for years, working on them and improving them (as he sees it), before they split up and he does the whole 'staying friends' thing long beyond the point where everyone else can see it's not helping the girl to get over him.

    If she's not happy with a situation with somebody, she puts up with it and grumbles behind their backs, but only to people she knows won't say anything about it. If he's unhappy with a situation, he'll manipulate the people involved until he is.

    Wow yup. That's about it I will do exactly that if I talk to anyone at all it has to be that I know they won't say anything about it. If I'm really unhappy I ALWAYS go talk directly to the person but if I'm just annoyed and need to talk I will sometimes without revealing who I'm talking about. Since I'm doing it always with a good friend they generally know who the person is anyway.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  8. #78
    Senior Member Littlelostnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Okay.

    When ENFJs find a socially awkward but endearing NT who obviously was drawn to the ENFJ, what do they think? What do they feel? What about when this NT is younger and they're trying to help them grow?

    (I'm trying to figure out what one of my teachers thought of me way back in the day; I really liked her. I know she liked me but I want to know what she thought of me.)
    I feel flattered because I'm so intrigued by NT's so when they are drawn to me I feel like wow..same here dude or (more recently) chickie. I just met my first female ENTP and I LOVE her. We are from entirely different cultures but we just connected right away. She's from Italy and when we realized why the bond was so strong we just laughed and said "Well there you go"

    I had a fourth grade class about 4 years ago and one of my students was a young NT (yes I could tell that early) The sweetest thing he said to me was "You know you're my favorite teacher ever because you're just as weird as I am" IT WAS GREAT! We still keep in touch his mom, he and I.
    for my life is slowed up by thought and the need to understand what I am living.

  9. #79
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Okay.

    Keep talking.

    What embarrasses you? I tend to notice that the emotions I would be embarrassed to show in front of others don't phase ENFJs to share these emotions with others. Do you find this is generally true with you?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  10. #80
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername
    What embarrasses you? I tend to notice that the emotions I would be embarrassed to show in front of others don't phase ENFJs to share these emotions with others. Do you find this is generally true with you?
    I am going to jump back in for this one. The only things I am embarrassed to express are tears & anger. I don't cry in front of anyone ever if I can help it. I think people would be shocked to know that dominant Fe and all I hardly ever shed a tear. True anger for me is a source of embarrassment. It's because anger means I haven't rationally looked at a situation and am taking something personally. It means I have also run out of solutions for that moment. An angry outburst which happens very rarely is scary and it feels very immature. Generally instead of letting it out I "calmly" assess the situation and change it in my mind. Silence from me is a good indicator that I am attempting to regain control internally. Luckily people who know me tend to STFU during this process.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

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