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  1. #61
    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Actually, I think one of the main communication blocks between me and ENFJ's, is that when I talk about things, I'm completely detached from 99% of what I'm saying, just throwing out ideas and wanting the other person to tell me what they think of them so I can whittle them into something half-decent. But the ENFJ's I know tend to just sit there being 'good listeners', not saying anything back, not giving any feedback, so I've no idea what they make of what I'm saying, and I feel worried that they think I actually mean the stuff I'm saying, like I'm speaking my actual opinions and stuff.
    If this is an accurate assessment of a typical ENFJ, then I don't know what to think of myself. This doesn't describe me at all, so I'm a bit confused. Then again, my NF scores were 25 each, so that might have something to do with why I don't quite fit the typical molds.
    I'm a man, and I'm proud of it.

  2. #62
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin_Ransom View Post
    If this is an accurate assessment of a typical ENFJ, then I don't know what to think of myself. This doesn't describe me at all, so I'm a bit confused. Then again, my NF scores were 25 each, so that might have something to do with why I don't quite fit the typical molds.
    I dunno... I get a sense with him like I can really see he's holding back on me because he's worried about offending me or hurting my feelings if he tells me what a pile of crap I just said. I've tried to tell him that it actually offends and upsets me more when he does that, than if he just came out and said I was talking shit. But it doesn't seem to get anywhere - it's as if he has a mental block or something, that stops him from understanding that these are not my opinions that I'm saying, but merely ideas I'm proposing, and that I want criticism.

    I know two male ENFJ's and one female one, and they're all like this with me.

    Also, I think we're at cross-wires sometimes when I ramble on, explaining my idea, taking their lack of response as either disapproval or incomprehension, figuring I have to keep trying to explain it or find ways to put it that'll get a response out of them, while they're actually thinking (I can tell by their faces - a lot of people forget how hyperactive Ne can more than compensate for ENTP's less developed Fe) that I'm an overly talkative ego monster who just wants to dominate conversations. I totally don't want that, and the only reason I'm rambling on is because I'm trying to find the thing I can say that will make them respond!!

    I eventually get sick of my own voice and of trying to pry their opinions and thoughts out of them, feeling like I'm throwing everything I've got at this person who's just like a rock, and everything I say just splatters on them and runs onto the floor, nothing is taken in, nothing absorbed, nothing valued... so I just go quiet. Then my Ne tells me they think I've gone quiet because I didn't like the fact that they didn't 'pander to my ego'.

    This situation is very stressful for me, so I end up having to work hard at not pouting...

    I know it's not 'just me', cos when I do the same thing with my roleplaying buddies (INFP, INTP, ENTP and ISTP), the conversation flows really well and everyone comes out with ideas and opinions, we all talk equal amounts and go away feeling like we've learned something or been inspired, and we find it really satisfying. Same with my novice guardian (INTP), former business partner and spiritual director (2 x ENTJ).
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    Funny thing is, I've found this exact experience true with ENFPs. For someone I see rarely more than 4-5 times a year, this one ENFP friend and I have come up with some of the most legendary jokes within our group of friends

    Maybe the similar dominant (ENFJ/P) and secondary (INTJ/P) functions playing to one another... similar perceptions, processed with different functions, or something like that

    I've also seen a similar style of interaction between an ESTJ and ISTJ before (Si being the operative function here, dominant in ISTJ but secondary in ESTJ)
    This is interesting and perhaps, true. We need SW's expertise to analyze it. He seems to know why these things happen. I must say, however, that I also love to be around INTPs and ENFPs. They get me going, too.

  4. #64
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    This is interesting and perhaps, true. We need SW's expertise to analyze it. He seems to know why these things happen. I must say, however, that I also love to be around INTPs and ENFPs. They get me going, too.
    yeah. cool theory!

    i am certainly a fan of the ENFP. I have 3 semi-close (like, close but i don't see them often) INTP friends. I love them all to death... it does seem, sometimes, that although we have exactly the same interests, i have trouble having a discussion with them once in a while. i have an easier time with INFP, ENFP, ENTP than INTP.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  5. #65
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    Hey! I'm new here, introduced myself on the forum earlier, and yeah...I'm an ENFJ. I saw the first topic on the NF list, so I'll post. =)

    Yeah, I really feel a closeness to INTPs. INTPs seem to have a really innocent and fantasy-like view of the world that really appeals to me. I am somewhat unique in that I have a deep interest in mathematics as an ENFJ, and I've found that conversations with INTPs are incredibly fulfilling.

    And INFJs are awesome as well. With many types, I have some reservation in talking about things that are deeper. With the INFJ, I find that their attitudes toward life and people are very mature, and that really draws me to them. I really feel like I can talk to them.

    And when I'm excited and in the adventurous mood, there's nothing better than the ENFP/ENTP, and sometimes the ESTP. It's really fun to be with them.

    ESTJ, I always keep a distance from, but am able to maintain a good relationship with...however, it's an act, and I don't really connect on a deep level. The communication is usually limited to friendly joking and smiling.

  6. #66
    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post
    Hey! I'm new here, introduced myself on the forum earlier, and yeah...I'm an ENFJ. I saw the first topic on the NF list, so I'll post. =)

    Yeah, I really feel a closeness to INTPs. INTPs seem to have a really innocent and fantasy-like view of the world that really appeals to me. I am somewhat unique in that I have a deep interest in mathematics as an ENFJ, and I've found that conversations with INTPs are incredibly fulfilling.
    Welcome, Don Quixote.

    Uhm. I feel like the roles are reversed for Varelse (my INTP girlfriend) and I, in that I tend to romanticize and otherwise make epic the world around me while she has the more cynical view. Still, we seem to do a good job of counter-balancing each other. I fully agree, though, that my conversations with her are the most fulfilling conversations I've ever had.

    I know what you mean about not exactly fitting the ENFJ archetype, though. I may express many of the typical traits, but I also have a tendency of doing things, or approaching things, in such a way that seems unheard of for an ENFJ. Maybe it's because I'm more of an XNFJ with only very loosely expressed Feeling.

    Hmm. I haven't used a single smiley in this post, how odd for me. I must be too drained from an ongoing (though now over) struggle with an ESFJ.
    I'm a man, and I'm proud of it.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElwinRansom
    I know what you mean about not exactly fitting the ENFJ archetype, though. I may express many of the typical traits, but I also have a tendency of doing things, or approaching things, in such a way that seems unheard of for an ENFJ.
    You will find many misconceptions floating around MBTI-land concerning ENFJs.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  8. #68
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin_Ransom View Post

    I know what you mean about not exactly fitting the ENFJ archetype, though. I may express many of the typical traits, but I also have a tendency of doing things, or approaching things, in such a way that seems unheard of for an ENFJ. Maybe it's because I'm more of an XNFJ with only very loosely expressed Feeling.
    What do you do that defies the ENFJ descriptions? I personally dislike most of the ENFJ (NF generally) descriptions that I read because I think they're too saintly. I also have a hard time distinguishing certain ENFP/ENFJ descriptions. The most difficult types for me to tell apart are ENFs, I usually can figure out most everybody else.

    Here's some snapshot info about ENFPs and ENFJs from Linda Berens. I think I can do both pretty well, maybe even the ENFP one better, but I know I'm an ENFJ. I guess the ENFJ one emphasizes how one should treat themselves, but I thought that would be in the domain of Fi, not Fe.

    ENFJ
    Theme is mentoring, leading people to achieve their potential and become more of who they are. Talents lie in empathizing with profound personal insight and influencing others to learn, grow, and develop. Lead using their exceptional communication skills, enthusiasm, and warmth to gain cooperation toward meeting the ideals they hold for the individual or organization. Catalysts who draw out the best in others. Thrive on empathetic connections. Frequently called on to help others with personal problems.

    ENFP
    Theme is inspiration, both of themselves and others. Talents lie in grasping profound significance, revealing truths, and motivating others. Very perceptive of others' hidden motives and purposes. Interested in everything about individuals and their stories as long as they're genuine. Contagious enthusiasm for "causes" that further the good and develop latent potential and the same zeal for disclosing dishonesty and inauthenticity. Frequently moved to enthusiastically communicate their "message."
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quixote View Post
    And INFJs are awesome as well. With many types, I have some reservation in talking about things that are deeper. With the INFJ, I find that their attitudes toward life and people are very mature, and that really draws me to them. I really feel like I can talk to them.
    My son is an INFJ and I love him to death. His wife is also an INFJ and I love her, too. The only difficulties that I see in discussing issues with them is that they tend to be very judgmental about people based on their value system. They are not as "open-minded" as other people. I think part of the problem is that they are young--30 years old and 28 years old. Like with any same personality pairings, they don't have the ability to do any type of correction with each other. They are totally like-minded. This leads to unrealistic expectations of people. They tend not to appreciate diversity of thought and they isolate themselves from people that think differently than they do. I think that this is going to be a challenge for them, going forward. I think that this is good discussion for another thread.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    What do you do that defies the ENFJ descriptions? I personally dislike most of the ENFJ (NF generally) descriptions that I read because I think they're too saintly. I also have a hard time distinguishing certain ENFP/ENFJ descriptions. The most difficult types for me to tell apart are ENFs, I usually can figure out most everybody else.

    Here's some snapshot info about ENFPs and ENFJs from Linda Berens. I think I can do both pretty well, maybe even the ENFP one better, but I know I'm an ENFJ. I guess the ENFJ one emphasizes how one should treat themselves, but I thought that would be in the domain of Fi, not Fe.
    Ooh can you expand a little? Examples of situations in which the ENFJ and the ENFP would take opposing views and their differences really show as obvious...

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