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  1. #51
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I do 'experiments' because I want to get to the underlying meaning/reasoning of why people do what they do. I was at the bookstore a few days ago and found a book of mini-experiments to do on people in the psychology section that will be mine soon! I like to single out one or two people of interest at a time and study them. I try to keep my avid interest a secret though as people will either take it the wrong way or act different. Rambling now but I hope that answered the question !
    Well, this INTJ thinks your avid interest is extremely intriguing; she has a similar one herself. (... obviously, i guess

    I like the ENFJ ramblings. I think my most clear insights on the topic of ENFJs have come from rambling; it's the "it's so obvious I thought it was assumed" stuff that I tend to miss about people, unfortunately.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  2. #52
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Okay: new question


    What about relationships? Do females need to be Pursued to feel the guy is good for her? Do you need to be romantically hooked?

    What sets you apart in your interest in men from other women's views?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #53
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Okay: new question


    What about relationships? Do females need to be Pursued to feel the guy is good for her? Do you need to be romantically hooked?

    What sets you apart in your interest in men from other women's views?
    With friendships I feel more confident doing the pursuing. All of my friends I have now, I was the one who took the lead. I asked them to hang out with me, or I went to hang out with them, I called them, just generally made myself available (or maybe a nuisance ) until we became friends. Of course now they all love me and wouldn't know what to do with themselves if I weren't in their lives.

    Romantically is a lot different although I probably exhibit the same behavior as when I'm being friendly. Like most others, I don't feel particularly more confident than other people when it comes to romantic relationships (I've only had two relationships).

    I don't know if other ENFJs feel the same way, but I think I have some serious control issues. When I like someone, it throws me off so much because I usually feel like I have a grasp on most social situations and I don't have that when I'm around someone I'm attracted to. They're messing up my radar somehow.:steam: So I go closer to them, not because I like them, (although I do) but because I want to get a grip on myself so I can get back to my normal behavior. I guess being around them forces me to adjust to them. Once I feel like I'm stabilized, then I can get on with the business of liking them. I think I'm pretty obvious about how I feel about someone by this point, as long as it's reciprocated. I really don't like that initial feeling, but I like the feelings afterwards.

    I don't know why I do this, this is probably the reason why I so rarely crush. I squelch it in the first stages because the above is just too much work. In my previous relationships we were already in the same social group so it really wasn't any pursuing, we were just together. I imagine it must be nice to be the recipient of someone's pursuit.

    As far as feeling "hooked," I don't know. Sometimes I'll like someone because they do one thing that I think I find interested, it really doesn't have to be much. I remember during the 2004 election there was a guy I was slightly attracted to at my job and I came to work with my little "I Voted" sticker. We struck up a conversation about it and he said he didn' t vote, like he was proud of it or something. That ended the attraction right there. I like quiet and thoughtful people and I want to be around them a lot.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #54
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I like quiet and thoughtful people and I want to be around them a lot.
    Thoughtful in what way? I've known certain subjects to be a turn on for some while a real turn off for others. Even the method of approaching these subjects gets varying responses due to preference.

  5. #55
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Thoughtful in what way? I've known certain subjects to be a turn on for some while a real turn off for others. Even the method of approaching these subjects gets varying responses due to preference.
    Thoughtful in the way that they are aware of how their actions affect others, socially aware of what's going on in the world and not freaking oblivious to things/apathetic towards anything that doesn't affect them personally, aware of their motivations and why they do things, willing to accept that everything is not as it appears to be, and people that try to improve themselves and their environment. So maybe I should have said aware and not thoughtful. I wasn't necessarily referring to scholarly/academic thoughtful.

    I'm the type of person that will run up to someone and tell them "did you know...!!" and I unrealistically expect them to see what I'm talking about as a serious matter. My local issue is the lack of affordable housing and gentrification in DC which is displacing and pricing out many residents low income residents. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they should have to accept substandard housing and unsafe neighborhoods. I rant about that constantly and while I get agreements, when I tell people to do something, get involved somehow, they get well I'm fine in my home. And then we could move onto the deteriorating quality of local school systems from there and a host of other issues, but you're so satisfied in your gated sub development. Well, when you property taxes increase and you can't afford to pay your mortgage because of the predatory lending practices that allowed you to afford your 1/2 acre brick front colonial, don't go crying the blues. You could have stopped it from reaching you when you stood up for the low income person that was displaced.

    I say that to illustrate that people like turn me off, that's not being very thoughtful.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  6. #56
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Thoughtful in the way that they are aware of how their actions affect others, socially aware of what's going on in the world and not freaking oblivious to things/apathetic towards anything that doesn't affect them personally, aware of their motivations and why they do things, willing to accept that everything is not as it appears to be, and people that try to improve themselves and their environment. So maybe I should have said aware and not thoughtful. I wasn't necessarily referring to scholarly/academic thoughtful.

    I'm the type of person that will run up to someone and tell them "did you know...!!" and I unrealistically expect them to see what I'm talking about as a serious matter. My local issue is the lack of affordable housing and gentrification in DC which is displacing and pricing out many residents low income residents. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they should have to accept substandard housing and unsafe neighborhoods. I rant about that constantly and while I get agreements, when I tell people to do something, get involved somehow, they get well I'm fine in my home. And then we could move onto the deteriorating quality of local school systems from there and a host of other issues, but you're so satisfied in your gated sub development. Well, when you property taxes increase and you can't afford to pay your mortgage because of the predatory lending practices that allowed you to afford your 1/2 acre brick front colonial, don't go crying the blues. You could have stopped it from reaching you when you stood up for the low income person that was displaced.

    I say that to illustrate that people like turn me off, that's not being very thoughtful.
    I just signed a pettition based on a housing problem in my area, but I see what you mean by thoughtful now. I've stopped expecting it from the vast majority since the improbability of reaching them in there "contented" state is so high.

  7. #57
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I always feel a sense of magnetic attraction to EFJs (the female variety), but while ESFJs send my brain through a continual "Abort, Retry, Ignore?" loop, ENFJs usually make a significant impression on me, one way or another. I usually like them and almost always have unending respect for them.

    Great conversations and a good time guaranteed every time I'm hanging around or with an ENFJ

  8. #58
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    I do 'experiments' because I want to get to the underlying meaning/reasoning of why people do what they do. I was at the bookstore a few days ago and found a book of mini-experiments to do on people in the psychology section that will be mine soon! I like to single out one or two people of interest at a time and study them. I try to keep my avid interest a secret though as people will either take it the wrong way or act different. Rambling now but I hope that answered the question !
    I am intrigued by this thread, especially this discussion of "experiments" -- I keep thinking it's probably evidence of the inferior function making its way into the behavior, an EFJ who needs to use ITP techniques to perfect their skill (experimentation, setting something in motion and deducing the innate structure and flow of whatever it is--useful for technical purposes with ISTP/INTP types, useful for social purposes with ENFJs)

    I would guess ITP types do the same thing with Fe, although I can't come up with any good examples at the moment.

  9. #59
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    It's amazing how ENFJs and INTJs feed off each other in a comical way. I know that my posts on this forum are often serious and reflective of what is inside of me (it's a safe environment) but I've been told by my ENFJ friends that I'm probably one of the most comical INTJs on the planet. I think it's the personality of the ENFJ that makes the INTJ come alive with humor. ENFJs verbalize what INTJs are thinking and then, they start feeding off each other. Creativity of thought and merriment is in abundance and it's truly a hysterical event when it all comes out......and when it's a tad bawdy, all hell breaks loose.
    Funny thing is, I've found this exact experience true with ENFPs. For someone I see rarely more than 4-5 times a year, this one ENFP friend and I have come up with some of the most legendary jokes within our group of friends

    Maybe the similar dominant (ENFJ/P) and secondary (INTJ/P) functions playing to one another... similar perceptions, processed with different functions, or something like that

    I've also seen a similar style of interaction between an ESTJ and ISTJ before (Si being the operative function here, dominant in ISTJ but secondary in ESTJ)

  10. #60
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    Thoughtful in the way that they are aware of how their actions affect others, socially aware of what's going on in the world and not freaking oblivious to things/apathetic towards anything that doesn't affect them personally, aware of their motivations and why they do things, willing to accept that everything is not as it appears to be, and people that try to improve themselves and their environment. So maybe I should have said aware and not thoughtful. I wasn't necessarily referring to scholarly/academic thoughtful...
    I spend my entire life, almost all of the time that I'm not sleeping or eating, taking direct action on local issues and I work my absolute butt off - so much so that I have to pay a friend to clean my apartment cos I just don't get time to do it - because I care. And I don't get paid a penny for any of it. It doesn't seem to have earned me the respect of an ENFJ I know, though. At least, if it does, then I don't know how I'm supposed to tell, since the only 'vibe' I get from him, as to his attitude towards me, is "disapproving". He makes me feel like I'm just not doing enough, or like I'm stepping out of my 'place'.

    Actually, I think one of the main communication blocks between me and ENFJ's, is that when I talk about things, I'm completely detached from 99% of what I'm saying, just throwing out ideas and wanting the other person to tell me what they think of them so I can whittle them into something half-decent. But the ENFJ's I know tend to just sit there being 'good listeners', not saying anything back, not giving any feedback, so I've no idea what they make of what I'm saying, and I feel worried that they think I actually mean the stuff I'm saying, like I'm speaking my actual opinions and stuff.

    It's very difficult to maintain any kind of relationship with someone who never tells you what they think of you, your ideas, your opinions or anything you say to them. They just sit there, nodding, making non-committal noises. For all I know he could think I'm a saint and a genius - then again, he could think I'm a total idiot that's not worth trying to get through to. I've just no way of knowing.
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