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  1. #41
    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I'm drawn to interesting people, and I think this is most likely true of all ENFJ's. I think we're drawn to people who most people brush off as "weird" because ENFJ's often feel weird themselves.

    I'm part of the crowd, yeah. I'm friends with all the popular kids, but I don't connect with them the way they connect with eachother. I just can't. I don't know how to. I feel much more at ease when I'm around someone who I don't feel like I have to impress, someone who is odd, and will appreciate me for me.

    Truth be told, I think much more highly of most NTJ's that I meet than SFP's.
    It's almost weird that you say this because I said something very much like it while talking with Varelse earlier. Very, very much like this.

    I usually know all of the popular people, I tend to be one of the popular people, but I still end up on the outside. I would much rather talk to Varelse, and those like her, than those like myself.

    Bottom line, even if I've been part of an "in crowd," I rarely ever felt like I was part of that crowd. I seem so likable (arrogance, sorry), and people usually respect me, but things seem to end there. I don't tend to get very close to others, but I'm really not sure that such is my fault.

    It would seem that it isn't since I put so much effort into others, but that leaves me unsure of why it is that others (in general) don't seem to put half as much effort into me. Alas. Such is trying to understand human relationships, yes?
    I'm a man, and I'm proud of it.

  2. #42
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin_Ransom View Post
    It would seem that it isn't since I put so much effort into others, but that leaves me unsure of why it is that others (in general) don't seem to put half as much effort into me. Alas. Such is trying to understand human relationships, yes?
    Hmmm.

    Last year, I knew an awesome ENFJ guy. He was older; it was entirely platonic. We got along great, but I rarely talked with him, even though we saw each other all the time the entire year.

    Reasoning: Everyone loved him and went to him to talk. I just appreciated him from afar with his attitude and jokes, etc. We did talk, but rarely. I think this is entirely because of me; I didn't want to take up his time. I could see he loved going deep with others, but he got drained of it. Everyone went to him.
    So for that reason, I generally avoided that ENFJ. Even though I thought he was awesome. It made me tired to see how tired he got by his upteenth discussion about some important issue. It was more of an "if I were him, I'd want personal space to just rejuvenate by myself, and I can see he's tired, so I'll just leave him alone".

    Hmmm. Insight into the INTJ mind, I guess.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #43
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    ^^^^^Oddly enough it's those kind of people I enjoy talking to most. I have people who I can sense are 'appreciating me from afar' currently. I thought it was just men who had a crush of some sorts. I have paid better attention recently and noticed that there are some introverted women who do similar behaviors. I would like it if they would approach me. It's true that I'm juggling many things at one time-all the time and I appear 'busy'! However I am a very open person and if you have a question/issue/comment I will answer it. I get the feeling that I missed out on potentially great friendships due to not being as observant/taking the time as I should have.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  4. #44
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I've since thought about it... and after reading someone pointing out on another thread that ESFPs are "notorious" for testing as something they're not...

    I'm pretty sure my intuition knows an ENFJ just like I thought I did. And I'm pretty sure these few people whom I thought weren't ENFJ are actually ESFPs. (I was in a large group and we were all tested at once when I learned about MBTI.)

    Anyway. ENFJs, continue on. I could listen to you guys explain your inner thoughts/nuances/driving forces forever until I understood.
    I don't know how an ENFJ and ESFP can be confused other than the fact that we're both EFs. I know I have a problem with impulsive behavior, but the ESFPs I know aren't being impulsive, they're being themselves. And they land on their feet better than what I do when they are acting impulsive. If you catch me on the weekend after a few drinks I may do a short-lived impersonation of an ESFP but that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwin_Ransom View Post
    Ah! Now that is a very significant subject to me! The smile. The smile is one of the most subtly powerful gestures in human arsenal. A smile can relay a lot of things, but, for me, more often than not, it's usually a way of silently saying, "Hey, I don't know you, but here's to hoping that you have a good day anyway." Do I truly, deeply care for everyone I smile to? Not necessarily, but that doesn't mean I can't wish them well in passing. Of course, that's not my favorite usage of smiling. My favorite is the form that says, "Hey, keep your chin up. You're awesome, and I'm here for you."

    Yes. I like that smile.

    Wait, this isn't the "dissect the various forms and applications of smiles" thread.
    I've always liked this line from Boys of Summer:
    "I see you walkin' real slow/and you're smilin' at everyone"

    I like smiling at people. Although I've gotten some harsh glares back at me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Okay.

    When ENFJs find a socially awkward but endearing NT who obviously was drawn to the ENFJ, what do they think? What do they feel? What about when this NT is younger and they're trying to help them grow?

    (I'm trying to figure out what one of my teachers thought of me way back in the day; I really liked her. I know she liked me but I want to know what she thought of me.)
    I have two NT friends, one INTP the other INTJ. I don't know how we became friends, or that we were drawn to each other. The INTP was a college roommate that introduced me to MBTI. I thought she was chill and I liked how she decorated her room. We bonded over our mutual love of organizing the refrigerator. NOTE: She is much cleaner and tidier than I am, my room was a mess.

    I met one unconfirmed INTJ at work, people thought he was rude and weird (he didn't do anything weird he just wasn't laughing in everyone's faces all the time) and I started small with him. I never thought he was rude; you can tell a genuinely rude and abrasive person from someone who has a low interaction threshold. If someone said hello to him, he always responded and asked how they were doing, he just (from what I could see) didn't initiate. I began by poking my head in his office every morning and saying hello, eventually we started going to Starbucks together for coffee runs. Conversation flowed from there. He began saying good morning and what not to me and we'd have lunch together. We only worked together for a few months and then he left so the friendship didn't take off. I emailed him a couple of times and got very nice responses, but I didn't want to make myself a nuisance because I wasn't sure if we were friends or not. I always emailed him and he didn't email me. I can't tell how to communicate with people very well in this format because I'm not getting any clues to continue/stop so I stopped.

  5. #45
    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've always liked this line from Boys of Summer:
    "I see you walkin' real slow/and you're smilin' at everyone"

    I like smiling at people. Although I've gotten some harsh glares back at me.
    "Boys of Summer"? Yes. A great song.

    I sometimes wonder if there's a hidden agenda in my smiling. I wonder if I smile in hopes of confusing people ("Why is he smiling?" "What's his problem?" etc.).

    I wonder, I'm a very inquisitive person, is that common among ENFJs? I'll say/do all sorts of weird little things just to see what kind of reactions people will have. I find that I'm utterly curious of things and how they relate to other things.
    I'm a man, and I'm proud of it.

  6. #46
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I definitely do things to see what the reaction will be. I think that's more of an NT trait, but maybe it applies to NFs too. But I think NTs will do a lot more "socially inappropriate" things than NFs. So the range of possibilities of things to is broader than NFs?

    What else do NFs do? I brought up smiling; what other nuances belong to your personality, and why do you do them? What do you consciously make an effort to do in any sort of interaction; why do you do it, what kind of results does it bring you?

    I liked the smiling answer. What else do you do?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #47
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Hmmm.

    Last year, I knew an awesome ENFJ guy. He was older; it was entirely platonic. We got along great, but I rarely talked with him, even though we saw each other all the time the entire year.

    Reasoning: Everyone loved him and went to him to talk. I just appreciated him from afar with his attitude and jokes, etc. We did talk, but rarely. I think this is entirely because of me; I didn't want to take up his time. I could see he loved going deep with others, but he got drained of it. Everyone went to him.
    So for that reason, I generally avoided that ENFJ. Even though I thought he was awesome. It made me tired to see how tired he got by his upteenth discussion about some important issue. It was more of an "if I were him, I'd want personal space to just rejuvenate by myself, and I can see he's tired, so I'll just leave him alone".

    Hmmm. Insight into the INTJ mind, I guess.
    I am this way with my pastor.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #48
    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    What else do NFs do? I brought up smiling; what other nuances belong to your personality, and why do you do them? What do you consciously make an effort to do in any sort of interaction; why do you do it, what kind of results does it bring you?

    I liked the smiling answer. What else do you do?
    I consciously put effort into getting others to feel comfortable around me. Why? Probably because I figure that there is more to be mutually gained if they are comfortable around me than if they're uncomfortable. What's this look like? I make it a point to understand as much about everything as I can. I don't care for watching sports, but I try to keep up with team standings and season progressions since so many guys love sports. I read as much as I can. I watch as many movies as I can. I listen to as much music as I can. I try to be well versed so that I can talk about anything with anyone. I work at being able to make small talk, but I try to make it clear that I'm quite open to more serious discussions.

    I actually don't know that there's a lot for me to gain from this, but it does seem to open doors for me to have a positive impact on others.

    I can come up with more later if it is requested of me.
    I'm a man, and I'm proud of it.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usehername
    I definitely do things to see what the reaction will be. I think that's more of an NT trait, but maybe it applies to NFs too. But I think NTs will do a lot more "socially inappropriate" things than NFs. So the range of possibilities of things to is broader than NFs?

    What else do NFs do? I brought up smiling; what other nuances belong to your personality, and why do you do them? What do you consciously make an effort to do in any sort of interaction; why do you do it, what kind of results does it bring you?
    I have mentioned my 'experiments' to NTs before and I always get that. I test reactions all the time and it's one of my favorite 'games' you could say. You could be right that NTs will do more socially inappropriate ones than I would. I walk a fine line however.

    I consciously try to use peoples names when I speak with them though it's more of just a habit now. I do it because people like to hear their names and it helps me to remember. I can't tell you how many times I have had a nice conversation with someone without knowing it. I will always remember the situation etc. they told me about. I always hope the conversation never turns to where I need to remember it! The results it brings is that most of the time people remember me fondly. I am an extrovert so making contacts is what I do. I will say that this is where ESFJs in my life have put me to shame! They seem to have a remarkable capacity to make contacts, remember names and playful banter. I know when I hang out with them that practically everywhere we go they 'know someone' ! I have been told by ESFJs close to me that I am 'stuck up' even because I am more careful (?) it seems in who I want to know and talk to.

    I do 'experiments' because I want to get to the underlying meaning/reasoning of why people do what they do. I was at the bookstore a few days ago and found a book of mini-experiments to do on people in the psychology section that will be mine soon! I like to single out one or two people of interest at a time and study them. I try to keep my avid interest a secret though as people will either take it the wrong way or act different. Rambling now but I hope that answered the question !
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  10. #50
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    I'm drawn to interesting people, and I think this is most likely true of all ENFJ's. I think we're drawn to people who most people brush off as "weird" because ENFJ's often feel weird themselves.

    I'm part of the crowd, yeah. I'm friends with all the popular kids, but I don't connect with them the way they connect with eachother. I just can't. I don't know how to. I feel much more at ease when I'm around someone who I don't feel like I have to impress, someone who is odd, and will appreciate me for me.

    Truth be told, I think much more highly of most NTJ's that I meet than SFP's.
    Well, if ENFJs often feel not "natural" in the crowds they are accepted in, how does one go about making them feel best when an NTJ or someone of the like is alone with them?

    What can an NTJ do to relax you? Make you feel appreciated? Make you energized? Make you comfortable?

    What ideas in particular really electrify the conversation that you have had in the past with NTJs?
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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