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  1. #11
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Hmmmm your last couple of posts are honestly making me wonder. I have reread these posts a couple of times and I'm still unclear on something. You want to learn to emulate ENFJs for what reason? This seems to be the closest to an explanation there is.
    That's one of my goals. To get so good at the "people" thing that people initially type me as ENFJ (until, of course, they sit down and talk with me and see the NT, how much little "natural" "F" I have (not that when I show "F" it's fake, just that it's consciously effortful) and how much time I spend alone.)
    If I am to sum this up properly I need feedback and apparently I'm missing something!!! You want to be typed initially as an ENFJ and later spring the fact that you are an NT on someone? Why would you want to start any relationship at all with people based on that? If you are wanting to learn 'people skills' to be better at work or dating all you need to do is practice. ENFJs generally have good intentions and seek others motivations. I am unclear of your motivation/interest in us. Please elaborate.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  2. #12
    Wait, what? Varelse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    ALSO: If anyone flames an ENFJ in this board, I will personally kick his/her ass. So don't worry about saying anything that might get you flamed. They will not touch you Now, share.
    Heh...I concur. I like hearing from the ENFJs.
    We are not poets
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  3. #13
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post

    I don't understand ENFJs. But sometimes I think they are my favorite.
    I know what you mean - though I think one of my reasons for not understanding them is that they so seldom DO talk about themselves. I know one who's a great listener - too great, for my comfort, in a way. Sometimes I feel a bit resentful towards him because I feel like he coaxes all my innermost stuff out of me, gets me telling him things I've never told others, and I share stuff with him so he knows so much on me, and yet he never opens up in return. It also gives me a bit of a complex, that he thinks I talk about myself too much when in fact, the only reason I'm talking half the time is to try to draw him out to talk about himself, but all he seems to want to do is talk about me, my problems, my life etc and offer advice. Which is great, but like I say, I'd like to be able to 'give back'. I feel uncomfortable about the one-sidedness of it all he sorta forces...

    Dunno if anyone else gets that...
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  4. #14
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    Hmmmm your last couple of posts are honestly making me wonder. I have reread these posts a couple of times and I'm still unclear on something. You want to learn to emulate ENFJs for what reason? This seems to be the closest to an explanation there is. If I am to sum this up properly I need feedback and apparently I'm missing something!!! You want to be typed initially as an ENFJ and later spring the fact that you are an NT on someone? Why would you want to start any relationship at all with people based on that? If you are wanting to learn 'people skills' to be better at work or dating all you need to do is practice. ENFJs generally have good intentions and seek others motivations. I am unclear of your motivation/interest in us. Please elaborate.
    Nah, I should've been more clear.

    I don't want people to think I'm something I'm not... I just want someone who's just met me to be able to say to me, "you're an intj? look at your social skills! you're so warm and friendly and everyone feels comfortable around you". (not that we would be discussing myers-briggs.... but maybe now I'm being more clear.)

    I've made it personally important to me that people are important to me... and thus I want to make people comfortable and like I am approachable, etc. (Which, when I'm not making conscious effort, sometimes I give off the opposite.)

    I just want to make people feel more comfortable around me, I guess.
    Which I think is a very ENFJ trait. A skill, actually, that I want to Master with a capital 'M' I was just wondering if you think it's theoretically possible that someone who isn't naturally gifted like that could learn to act with that ENFJ skill.

    (I guess differentiating between the certain "skill" of the ENFJ and the ENFJ itself would be helpful.)

    Also, that was kinda a side note from my original question. I am genuinely fascinated by ENFJs in general, aside from the skills that they have that I want to learn.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    I've made it personally important to me that people are important to me... and thus I want to make people comfortable and like I am approachable, etc. (Which, when I'm not making conscious effort, sometimes I give off the opposite.)

    I just want to make people feel more comfortable around me, I guess.
    Which I think is a very ENFJ trait. A skill, actually, that I want to Master with a capital 'M' I was just wondering if you think it's theoretically possible that someone who isn't naturally gifted like that could learn to act with that ENFJ skill.

    (I guess differentiating between the certain "skill" of the ENFJ and the ENFJ itself would be helpful.)
    Thank-you that is much more clear. I think it would be possible for an NT, even an introverted one, to make people feel more comfortable with practice. Separating the 'skill' from the ENFJ is not too difficult. I can go into a room of people some days and feel as though I am walking on air (more like positive feelings) in a sense. I like days like that .

    I'm naturally inclined to scan my surroundings including people for what I see that is positive just below the surface. I think what draws people to me is that when I make such an observation, with total sincerity, I want to share it with them. You will rarely see me in a 'flattery mode' as that just feels manipulative to me. I will not say that I haven't practiced it because that would be a lie. I needed to know for myself if I could do it . I would say if you make habit of finding something that you quite genuinely admire/appreciate about someone and tell them you could see huge results. I would say though it might be difficult, at first, with practice you could become a person people want to share and be with. Be careful what you wish for is all I have to say . ENFJs rarely share on the negative side of this but there are some believe me. I think we just happen to be well-equipped to deal with it.

    Sometimes I feel a bit resentful towards him because I feel like he coaxes all my innermost stuff out of me, gets me telling him things I've never told others, and I share stuff with him so he knows so much on me, and yet he never opens up in return. It also gives me a bit of a complex, that he thinks I talk about myself too much when in fact, the only reason I'm talking half the time is to try to draw him out to talk about himself, but all he seems to want to do is talk about me, my problems, my life etc and offer advice. Which is great, but like I say, I'd like to be able to 'give back'. I feel uncomfortable about the one-sidedness of it all he sorta forces...
    I have had people share this same thing Substitute . I have read enough about ENFJs to know this can be an area where those in relationships with us can become uneasy. I have tried my own self-improvement plan to attempt to correct this. I find it hard, really hard, to reveal any of my innermost thoughts and feelings. I always want to 'be there' for the other person. I know what I look for in other people so I am a little paranoid. People have no idea what an ENFJ can 'get' from a simple statement-though every now and again we are wrong . I don't want to give away too much until I am ready and trust this person. However the cycle for me usually goes that I fall into a pattern after a time with someone and then my innermost being never gets to surface. This tends to be a trap for me. I desperately want to find someone to share with and I find someone I care about. The pattern will by then be set in my mind at least after I develop some trust (difficult as well). I generally end up thinking that it would be selfish to 'dump' all of my issues on them. Doesn't make sense does it? I have always had that feeling of being alone and I am frankly tired of it!! I am 'testing' on the internet letting some of this stuff out and it is pretty good so far. I don't know if it will transfer to RL or not but I hope it does someday-at least that's the plan.

    *sorry if I unintentionally made any generalizations other ENFJs I tried to keep it personal*
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  6. #16
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I know what you mean - though I think one of my reasons for not understanding them is that they so seldom DO talk about themselves. I know one who's a great listener - too great, for my comfort, in a way. Sometimes I feel a bit resentful towards him because I feel like he coaxes all my innermost stuff out of me, gets me telling him things I've never told others, and I share stuff with him so he knows so much on me, and yet he never opens up in return. It also gives me a bit of a complex, that he thinks I talk about myself too much when in fact, the only reason I'm talking half the time is to try to draw him out to talk about himself, but all he seems to want to do is talk about me, my problems, my life etc and offer advice. Which is great, but like I say, I'd like to be able to 'give back'. I feel uncomfortable about the one-sidedness of it all he sorta forces...

    Dunno if anyone else gets that...
    I've thought about this some more and while I have people I'm comfortable talking about my personal life with, I usually don't get the level of feedback I give to others when I talk about myself. It makes me reluctant to say anything because I try to listen and give solutions to any issues people are having and I want the same in return. I know I'm difficult to talk to if you want me to talk about myself which is why I don't like to do it.

    It's not like I don't talk about myself to other people it's that I throw meaty tidbits about myself wrapped in silliness and I wonder if the person will take the bait. Most people don't so I don't continue. I guess want I want is for people to do what I do, think there's something more in what I said and start trying to figure out what it is. I can see how people can think ENFJs are superficial because I try to be a lighthearted person. I don't want to be around people that depress me and drag me down so I put out upbeat vibes. I've gotten into heated arguments with family members and then gone to work like nothing happened, plastered a smile on my face and faked it the whole day. I often wish someone could just tell that I'm not doing OK and ask me what's going on.

    So maybe with your ENFJ, you're talking and he's just listening. It's a good strategy, talk about yourself and make the other person comfortable so they'll talk about themselves. I do it and it works, but maybe since an ENFJ does it, they're hipper to it and not as likely to fall for it. I say just be more observant of his moods and go from there.

  7. #17
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Wow Lookin, we posted nearly the exact thing and I hadn't even seen yours yet.

  8. #18
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I've thought about this some more and while I have people I'm comfortable talking about my personal life with, I usually don't get the level of feedback I give to others when I talk about myself. It makes me reluctant to say anything because I try to listen and give solutions to any issues people are having and I want the same in return. I know I'm difficult to talk to if you want me to talk about myself which is why I don't like to do it.
    But I like doing that too, and this guy's seen me doing it with loads of other people, and I do it too with the non-personal stuff he tells me. I do want to listen and I am genuinely interested, and I do try to ask him leading questions that I think you'd have to be the most clueless person ever, to not get that I'm hinting that I want them to open up or give me their opinion. But he still doesn't seem to bite.

    It's not like I don't talk about myself to other people it's that I throw meaty tidbits about myself wrapped in silliness and I wonder if the person will take the bait. Most people don't so I don't continue. I guess want I want is for people to do what I do, think there's something more in what I said and start trying to figure out what it is.
    Yeah I see what you're saying, I sorta do the same thing in some ways. A lot of the time I can clearly see that there's more to what he's saying than the words alone, and I've often got some ideas as to what it might be, and I want to discuss it. However, since he's established this image of a guy who doesn't talk about himself, I hesitate to ask or pick up verbally on it, because I figure he doesn't want to talk about it. I'm worried about him thinking I'm prying or poking my nose in his business or something.

    I can see how people can think ENFJs are superficial because I try to be a lighthearted person. I don't want to be around people that depress me and drag me down so I put out upbeat vibes.
    Trouble is, the guy I know, I think the reason he does this is more because he thinks other people will be upset or brought down if he talks about his problems, not that he himself finds it depressing. What I mean is that the source of his feeling of being 'dragged down' if he talks about his problems, is that he believes it will drag others down. I've tried 'til blue in the face to get him to understand that it's NOT a burden to me, and it's actually quite fascinating to me, stimulating and refreshing to listen to a thoughtful person for a change. But again, no success.

    I've gotten into heated arguments with family members and then gone to work like nothing happened, plastered a smile on my face and faked it the whole day. I often wish someone could just tell that I'm not doing OK and ask me what's going on.
    Like I say, with my ENFJ, I can tell. But I don't ask because he makes it look like he doesn't want me to. And also, I start to resent this idea that it's my job to dig it out of him all the time against his childish resistance (what, is he testing me? wanting me to prove myself worthy?), as if he thinks it's for my benefit that I do it, as opposed to caring about him and it being for his good.

    So maybe with your ENFJ, you're talking and he's just listening.
    But that's not what I want. I don't want him to just listen. I want him to TALK BACK. If I wanted to just sit and talk I'd stand in front of a mirror and save the money I spent on his drink!!

    It's a good strategy, talk about yourself and make the other person comfortable so they'll talk about themselves. I do it and it works, but maybe since an ENFJ does it, they're hipper to it and not as likely to fall for it. I say just be more observant of his moods and go from there.
    But I'm not thinking like that at all. I'm not thinking, talk about myself to make them feel comfortable. I'm thinking: talk about myself so they know I'm cool with talking about this kind of thing with them, so they figure it's cool to talk about themselves too. Often I'm not just talking about myself, but all sorts of stuff - just trying to go through as many areas of thought and knowledge or humour or whatever, as I can come up with in the hope that one of them might spark his interest and get him talking. But instead, it just makes me feel like an awful chatterbox, and I go away feeling really bad about myself, like I'm the most boring person ever, and even trying my hardest to get along with this guy and get him interested, he just sat there looking as though he was 'suffering in silence' or something.

    Sometimes when I go to lunch with him, I wonder why the hell he wants to meet up with me, and get a complex like he feels sorry for me or something, and I spend hours afterwards beating myself up over what seems like my horrendous social skills (until I see someone else - anyone else - and realise that it's just him). So if his aim is to make me feel comfortable or better, he failed, dammit!

    Well, this is how he was in earlier days - well, for about the first 2 years that I knew him. He's not so much like it now, he's opened up a little bit, but compared to other people I've known for the same amount of time, I feel like I hardly know him, and it upsets me cos I really respect him and I feel like he just doesn't think I'm cool enough or whatever, for him to want me to be one of his close friends.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  9. #19
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Yeah I see what you're saying, I sorta do the same thing in some ways. A lot of the time I can clearly see that there's more to what he's saying than the words alone, and I've often got some ideas as to what it might be, and I want to discuss it. However, since he's established this image of a guy who doesn't talk about himself, I hesitate to ask or pick up verbally on it, because I figure he doesn't want to talk about it. I'm worried about him thinking I'm prying or poking my nose in his business or something.

    Trouble is, the guy I know, I think the reason he does this is more because he thinks other people will be upset or brought down if he talks about his problems, not that he himself finds it depressing. What I mean is that the source of his feeling of being 'dragged down' if he talks about his problems, is that he believes it will drag others down. I've tried 'til blue in the face to get him to understand that it's NOT a burden to me, and it's actually quite fascinating to me, stimulating and refreshing to listen to a thoughtful person for a change. But again, no success.
    If you're trying as hard as you say you are, then you've gone a lot further than I would. All I can say about myself is I truly don't like to speak about my personal matters. Two weeks ago my mother was in the hospital and I missed work for a few days. I had to tell my boss something so I gave her an abbreviated version of the story. Every day she asked me how is your mother doing and it just felt invasive. Then I wonder if this is how people feel when I start asking questions? So I oscillate between not wanting to offend the other person with personal questions because I know how I react to them, and genuinely wanting to know about the other person and trying to figure out ways to make a connection without being pushy.

    And then add some trust issues because when you talk to people the way I have and hear the rotten stuff they do, I have a serious complex about revealing information.

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    But that's not what I want. I don't want him to just listen. I want him to TALK BACK. If I wanted to just sit and talk I'd stand in front of a mirror and save the money I spent on his drink!!
    LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Sometimes when I go to lunch with him, I wonder why the hell he wants to meet up with me, and get a complex like he feels sorry for me or something, and I spend hours afterwards beating myself up over what seems like my horrendous social skills (until I see someone else - anyone else - and realise that it's just him). So if his aim is to make me feel comfortable or better, he failed, dammit!

    Well, this is how he was in earlier days - well, for about the first 2 years that I knew him. He's not so much like it now, he's opened up a little bit, but compared to other people I've known for the same amount of time, I feel like I hardly know him, and it upsets me cos I really respect him and I feel like he just doesn't think I'm cool enough or whatever, for him to want me to be one of his close friends.
    If you sincerely want to broaden your relationship with this person, then I'd ask straight out. I appreciate when people are up front with me because it relieves a lot of the tension I've been feeling about a relationship I'm unsure of. Is he inviting you out any places with him outside of work? Although I tend to hang out with coworkers if they ask me to during work hours, I don't spend my personal time with people I'm not interested in becoming friends with. How I "make friends" with someone is I ask them if they want to do something with me or I go hang out with them. I like to spend one-on-one time with them and not be with a bunch of people. When I'm with a group, my attention is spread thin and I don't concentrate on the individual the way I'd like to. When we have some time to ourselves I ask them questions to see where their head is at and see if I want to disclose more info. I'm basically trying to lay a foundation for a friendship/relationship. Even though I hang out with different people, I don't try to make friends out of them.

    I tend to be more assertive when I want a person to be my friend (if they want to also I'm not a jerk forcing my friendship off on people). I'm really not used to being pursued by someone who wants to be my friend. This may be throwing your ENFJ friend off a little, I don't know.

    Maybe if the other ENFJs want to chime in about how they'd react you'd get more informative responses.

    Do any other people have any ENFJ experiences they want to share?

  10. #20
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    (edit) As the previous title seems to have been too specific...

    All I really want is to understand the ENFJ motivations and inner life. Any input, example, thought in reference to that would be mightily appreciated.


    What really pulls you toward someone? What kinds of things affect your soul? What kinds of behavior/personalities bug you?

    I don't understand ENFJs. But sometimes I think they are my favorite.
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