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Thread: INFJ brain

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Default INFJ brain

    What are your thoughts on this?
    ..............
    While an INFJ may sort information and bring it into the world via Fe, she usually has a strong Ti backing due to Ti's tertiary placement which means that not only can a healthy INFJ deal with the emotional parts of human interaction but can also pull his own weight in a conversation with more of a focus on facts exchange or logic. Ni working with Fe and Ti produce a unique prespective quite unlike any other.
    .........
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I often feel like the two introverted functions and the two extroverted functions can work together creating a dichotomy in my personality. There is an extreme analytical detachment of Ni-Ti that I'm used to locking into when in idea space. That is partly why I had strong connections with Ti-doms most of my life and had a wonderful connection in idea space where I could learn and explore ideas. But if I can only connect and function in that realm, there is a strong Fe-Se aspect of personality that can end up distressed from neglect. I think that is why I went into the arts because I can move between those two inner loops and it brings the whole dichotomy together into a harmonious whole.

    I would say that I feel the Ni-Fe functioning together when I interact with people in an almost completely observational mode that withholds judgment, but also connects with empathy. That pairing of functions is really difficult to put into words. It feels mostly nebulous like a cloud. When I'm organizing ideas in my mind I think it's mostly a Ni-Ti loop. Although I can think of one exception. I've found that in conversations about religion in which a Ti-dom outright rejects it, I will tend to take a softer approach where I explain that each person is working from their own context and experience, and to tread softly because it is no small thing to dismantle someone's entire framework of reality. Because of this I don't like to debate with people in a way that dismisses or makes fun of what they hold most dear. I'm also not certain that labels for experiences and personal ideas are that important. I look at different opinions about subjective information as likely just people using different labels and words to describe the same thing. While Ti-doms get really specific about word definitions, I find words to be potentially meaningless when dealing in the subjective realm. In that way I'm not using Ti at all, I suspect.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I often feel like the two introverted functions and the two extroverted functions can work together creating a dichotomy in my personality. There is an extreme analytical detachment of Ni-Ti that I'm used to locking into when in idea space. That is partly why I had strong connections with Ti-doms most of my life and had a wonderful connection in idea space where I could learn and explore ideas. But if I can only connect and function in that realm, there is a strong Fe-Se aspect of personality that can end up distressed from neglect. I think that is why I went into the arts because I can move between those two inner loops and it brings the whole dichotomy together into a harmonious whole.

    I would say that I feel the Ni-Fe functioning together when I interact with people in an almost completely observational mode that withholds judgment, but also connects with empathy. That pairing of functions is really difficult to put into words. It feels mostly nebulous like a cloud. When I'm organizing ideas in my mind I think it's mostly a Ni-Ti loop. Although I can think of one exception. I've found that in conversations about religion in which a Ti-dom outright rejects it, I will tend to take a softer approach where I explain that each person is working from their own context and experience, and to tread softly because it is no small thing to dismantle someone's entire framework of reality. Because of this I don't like to debate with people in a way that dismisses or makes fun of what they hold most dear. I'm also not certain that labels for experiences and personal ideas are that important. I look at different opinions about subjective information as likely just people using different labels and words to describe the same thing. While Ti-doms get really specific about word definitions, I find words to be potentially meaningless when dealing in the subjective realm. In that way I'm not using Ti at all, I suspect.

    Fia,

    This is an awesome response. Thank you. I, too, have experienced the Fe by-pass and yes, there are times when I can literally watch Ni-Fe working together to achieve a desired outcome.

    I like what you say about not getting totally hung up on word definitions because it is no small thing to dismantle someone's framework of reality.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    The reason I brought this subject up is that I read all of these descriptions about how INFJs are complex and deep and prone to creativity and usually are highly successful in academia. This sounds like high intelligence to me. Yet, people are often surprised when they find out how "smart" I am or that I am a "deep" thinker. I wonder if the auxiliary Fe disguises INFJ intelligence to point that people don't believe it when they see it.

    For example, I had a friend say to me one time, "You don't look or act smart, but you are."

    "What?!" I asked her, "What do you think a smart person looks like anyway?"

    All she could tell me was that smart people weren't so "graceful." I thought that was absurd, but she had a stereo-type of intelligence and I apparently, despite my IQ, level of education, multiple languages and varying creative abilities, didn't fit it.

    So, now I'm just thinking off the cuff, so to speak. If INFJ's primary function is Ni, a dominance they share only with INTJs, and this Ni is considered responsible for great intelligence [or is it?], then why could the Fe+Ti function not equal a very analytical brain that not only can convince people of how much they know but how much they care as well? I know you've heard the old saying, "People [for the most part] don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." If experience has taught me anything it is that people, in general, are far more willing to listen to my theories if they know the theories have a practical application that will somehow improve their lives.

    According to INFJ - Psychology Wiki [which happens to be just one random site I got from googling]
    INFJs are usually good students, achievers who exhibit an unostentatious creativity. They take their work seriously and enjoy academic activity
    AND

    INFJs have vivid imaginations exercised both as memory and intuition, and this can amount to genius.
    A site called NF Musicians lists INFJ's among the The Genius of INFJ The iNtuitive Musician musical geniuses.

    I know this is only the scantest of resources, nor am I making a claim. However, I am asking, "Is there a sufficient basis to link creative genius with INFJs?" [I'm not saying there's not for other types, either. So, if you're not an INFJ I'm not saying you're not intelligent or creative. I'm just focusing on this one type at the moment.]

    A few years ago, during the pursuit of my master's degree, I researched IQ tests and one of the things I found is that IQ tests cannot measure creativity. One source discussed the possibility that a person with an IQ of 120 who also possessed an uncanny ability in art, music, language or any of the other fields that IQ tests can't normally measure was every bit the genius, and sometimes more so, than those who possessed higher IQ scores. If we take intelligence to be more than the ability to solve logic-based puzzles, then could it not be possible that INFJs [INFPs, too, but that's another discussion] are, indeed, as bright as any of their "thinking" counterparts, given that they are from the same background with the same amount of education? However, I digressed from my original idea, which is this. While it has been said that INFJs are the most NT of the NFs, could it not be that Fe+Ti equips INFJs both in the world of people and academia? Does having a warm disposition negate one's intellectual capacity? [Even as I write this, I'm thinking of a brilliant ENFP who is as warm as she can be, and comes across as goofy beyond belief, yet, she is truly brilliant.]

    Haha..is it the Ti that even makes me ask such questions in the first place? Is it the inner ISTP acting up again? [she's a sneak, slips in when I'm not watching.]

    I look forward to hearing your ideas on this posts and thank you for sharing.
    Last edited by Ene; 01-26-2015 at 09:09 AM.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  5. #5
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I often feel like the two introverted functions and the two extroverted functions can work together creating a dichotomy in my personality. There is an extreme analytical detachment of Ni-Ti that I'm used to locking into when in idea space. That is partly why I had strong connections with Ti-doms most of my life and had a wonderful connection in idea space where I could learn and explore ideas. But if I can only connect and function in that realm, there is a strong Fe-Se aspect of personality that can end up distressed from neglect. I think that is why I went into the arts because I can move between those two inner loops and it brings the whole dichotomy together into a harmonious whole.

    I would say that I feel the Ni-Fe functioning together when I interact with people in an almost completely observational mode that withholds judgment, but also connects with empathy. That pairing of functions is really difficult to put into words. It feels mostly nebulous like a cloud. When I'm organizing ideas in my mind I think it's mostly a Ni-Ti loop. Although I can think of one exception. I've found that in conversations about religion in which a Ti-dom outright rejects it, I will tend to take a softer approach where I explain that each person is working from their own context and experience, and to tread softly because it is no small thing to dismantle someone's entire framework of reality. Because of this I don't like to debate with people in a way that dismisses or makes fun of what they hold most dear. I'm also not certain that labels for experiences and personal ideas are that important. I look at different opinions about subjective information as likely just people using different labels and words to describe the same thing. While Ti-doms get really specific about word definitions, I find words to be potentially meaningless when dealing in the subjective realm. In that way I'm not using Ti at all, I suspect.
    May I throw my two cents' worth in? I like to say that specificity of word definitions deals with denotation, but subjective use of words (expansive, personal, artistic) deals with connotation, qualia, shared experience. It is the latter that gives art and literature its power: the power to move the reader.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  6. #6
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    May I throw my two cents' worth in? I like to say that specificity of word definitions deals with denotation, but subjective use of words (expansive, personal, artistic) deals with connotation, qualia, shared experience. It is the latter that gives art and literature its power: the power to move the reader.
    True 'dat.

    That is an important aspect of subjective language, but notice that you are describing an opposite process from what I'm describing. The artist/writer describes their personal experience and ideas based on their own assumptions and language use, and then another person encounters this and relates to their own experience. There is not a way to necessarily measure the accuracy of the interpretation, how closely the reader's interpretation meets the writer's on that deepest level.

    What I describe is looking at another person's experience and choosing words to represent it. This is limited. If someone says they experienced a connection with god, that language is a feeble attempt to put labels on something they did in fact experience. If I want to argue back with a different set of labels for them, than that is an act of futility. The experience remains the same regardless of what labels are attached to it. In this way there is an element of respect and empathy to give people ownership of their own experience and the words they choose to represent it. In this way word definitions become irrelevant.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    What are your thoughts on this?
    ..............
    While an INFJ may sort information and bring it into the world via Fe, she usually has a strong Ti backing due to Ti's tertiary placement which means that not only can a healthy INFJ deal with the emotional parts of human interaction but can also pull his own weight in a conversation with more of a focus on facts exchange or logic. Ni working with Fe and Ti produce a unique prespective quite unlike any other.
    .........
    Excuse me if I'm talking about something else that's not related to what you're asking (I'm still learning the functions), but something I have trouble with is the order of functions or the use of function that determines how a person think/respond to their environment. I have a lot of NF friends but I grew up with SJs and SPs. I get along with NTs but not as much NFs. I think this explains why NFs are somewhat challenging for me to engage in conversation because most of them have higher Fs than I do I *think*. Anyway, I think the question for me is how do I know what function explains a person's ability to connect to logic/reasons?

    Am I on the right track? :p

  8. #8
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skippythecat View Post
    Excuse me if I'm talking about something else that's not related to what you're asking (I'm still learning the functions), but something I have trouble with is the order of functions or the use of function that determines how a person think/respond to their environment. I have a lot of NF friends but I grew up with SJs and SPs. I get along with NTs but not as much NFs. I think this explains why NFs are somewhat challenging for me to engage in conversation because most of them have higher Fs than I do I *think*. Anyway, I think the question for me is how do I know what function explains a person's ability to connect to logic/reasons?

    Am I on the right track? :p
    Skippy,
    I think that's a good question and I'm glad you asked.

    I'm no pro, but I would say that it isn't any one specific function responsible for logic, but rather the way that they combine to form the whole package, so to speak. We can't assume that not having Ti or Te as a dominant or auxiliary function devoids a person of adequate reasoning abilities, especially considering that some of the world's great thinkers have also been NFs. It could simply be, in your case, that you are used to communicating with Sensors. Do you know your own functional stack yet? Are you an STP, STJ, NTJ, NTP, etc.?

    Also, take into consideration the context of your communication with the NFs. Not all NFs are the same. Some put more emphasis on personal values, others on ideas, concepts and theories, others on possibilities and discoveries. A lot depends on whether they are Fe or Fi dominate, Ne or Ni dominant and on their tertiary functional placing. I'd love to hear/read some other people's thoughts on this.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  9. #9
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    What are your thoughts on this?
    ..............
    While an INFJ may sort information and bring it into the world via Fe, she usually has a strong Ti backing due to Ti's tertiary placement which means that not only can a healthy INFJ deal with the emotional parts of human interaction but can also pull his own weight in a conversation with more of a focus on facts exchange or logic. Ni working with Fe and Ti produce a unique prespective quite unlike any other.
    .........
    Re: "Ni working with Fe and Ti produce a unique prespective quite unlike any other."

    I feel like this sentence could be about any functional combination:

    Dominant function A working with auxiliary function B and tertiary function C produce a unique perspective quite unlike any other. I mean, what does that even mean?

    I don't know if you've thought of it like this, but I am wondering if you've noticed the pattern that mostly Ni doms talk about their tertiary function as being strong / developed, not so much other types. By definition, a tertiary function is weak. That's why it is called the tertiary.

    As far as the sentiment of the OP, I guess I find it varies quite a bit individual to individual, just like Fi development in INTJ.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #10
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Re: "Ni working with Fe and Ti produce a unique prespective quite unlike any other."

    I feel like this sentence could be about any functional combination:

    Dominant function A working with auxiliary function B and tertiary function C produce a unique perspective quite unlike any other. I mean, what does that even mean?

    I don't know if you've thought of it like this, but I am wondering if you've noticed the pattern that mostly Ni doms talk about their tertiary function as being strong / developed, not so much other types. By definition, a tertiary function is weak. That's why it is called the tertiary.

    As far as the sentiment of the OP, I guess I find it varies quite a bit individual to individual, just like Fi development in INTJ.
    Can you clarify your terms, please, @PeaceBaby, especially as you finish up mentioning Fi and INTJ? I think most INTJs would call their tertiary Fi "strong" but by that they mean "intense" -- intense enough to compete with or interfere with their secondary function, Te; with the result they *mistake* the Fi for being developed.

    Your impression, please?
    @Ene, I agree with you in many ways, but with one caveat.

    I think (and others have noted and complained) that immature INTJs are often OVERconfident in their abilities, due to the synergy of Ni and Te.
    I sometimes think that in *interpersonal* matters, inexperienced INFJ have a similar blind spot: they try to check the theories developed by their Ni, but they check it with Ti, not Te: which means that if their Ni reports something that is "true for that INFJ" then the INFJ will feel that their Ni instinct is TRUTH(TM). But if the INFJ had used Te, to look for external examples, they might find that their Ni had jumped the gun.

    Just a hazy guesstimate, based on my Te, and lurking on threads. Absolutely not offense intended, and any corrections of ME positively encouraged, if not outright solicited.
    (INTJs sure can be nitpicky, can't they?)

    On the whole though I have seen the creative intuition of INFJs put on some amazing fireworks displays...

    Best wishes.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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