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  1. #41
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    She's very extroverted. Wouldn't be surprised if she was neither infp or infj. She really worked the circuit to get where she is...
    I think very driven INFJs could come across as more extraverted. This could really apply to any introverted type, but especially INFJs when they wield their Fe like a well tuned instrument. Seems like they can be quite good at influencing others.

  2. #42
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melomania View Post
    That is pretty spot on in my experience. I usually know what I'm feeling but I might not always be able to easily find words to describe it to someone else. I also have a really hard time letting things go if I don't feel like I got the resolution that I was looking for. For example, if my husband and I are talking something out, and he doesn't respond in a way that lets me know he heard the point I'm trying to illustrate, then I'll get really obnoxious and keep repeating myself, like a loop, or I'll keep bringing the conversation up at later dates until I feel like it's been resolved (ultimately, meaning we both fully understand where the other is coming from).
    Oh wow. I think I do that too: repeat myself ad nauseum. I am also very concerned people understanding my motivations. And if they do not it can drive me CRAZY. Or if they tease me and pretend they do not, that is how to press my buttons, so to speak.

    I guess this is Fi. I am discovering I might have been an enfp at birth, but changed more into an infj. Now I use Fe better than Fi most of the time, maybe because of my profession in working one-on-one with women. But I don't think Fe was very good before the age of 20? I still remember my mother coming to my college apt and getting incensed because I didn't offer her something to drink, or make her feel welcome, when she got to my apt. This is a HUGE no-no in the south!! But I simply hadn't ever learned that even though I had seem it portrayed in front of me millions of times throughout my childhood any time we went anywhere. I do remember being an animal activist and would become very enraged when anyone was mean to animals, even plotting daring kidnappings of animals I perceived were abused. I remember doing this on at least a couple of occasions. I guess that may have been Fi...


    all in all, the 16 types are fluid and liable to change under external, or even internal, influences. I am glad I am not the stereotypical infj or enfp...
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  3. #43
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    because we know her personally and she has to be infp cuz we have tea with her every day at 4, so we know better.

    she could be INFP or she could be INFJ that's the thing we don't actually know.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No one finds me friendly or approachable or emotionally open in person. People nag at me to smile, complain they cannot tell how I feel, project stuff onto me, etc. I do get strangers making emotional confessions to me, but that is at odds with how I am perceived socially.

    This is almost entirely a 9 vs 4 enneagram thing for INFPs. The 9 INFPs I know do have a much more approachable, relaxed, friendly aura and they more readily express positive emotion. They don't use emotional expression so much as a TOOL, however, which does seem more Fe over all, but they do not come across as blank or cold.

    I honestly do use emotional expression as a tool, but it's crappy "faux Fe" I put on to avoid being stigmatized so much for not being a typical gushy girl. However, when I do have genuinely strong emotion and a suitable context/reason to express it, then I'm more passionate and intense than my e9 friends. I may keep this at bay because it's not the easy warmth of the e9 and it can be disturbing to people.

    INFJs seem more controlled, even if they become very expressive. It all seems "calculated". Being Ni-dom, they can seem expressionless & not extremely emotive too, which I think is more introversion than anything. Te-dom seem highly expressive & animated to me, as do all extroverts, so I think that has way less to do with Feeling than Extroversion.

    Anyway, on-topic: I don't like this author or the fantasy genre in general. I think the fantasy genre is mistakenly associated with iNtuition, when fantasy itself is not iNtuition in the Jungian sense. So much in the fantasy genre is very straight-forward story-telling (fantastical elements, but lacking in real symbolism and developed themes, so that it's just action & plot in a whimsical setting), which is always how this author has struck me, although I am admittedly not well-acquainted with her books because their very concept doesn't interest me.
    Wow good points here! I don't like fantasy either, for exactly the same reasons as you - and I've wondered if that meant I was not an N type - thanks for clearing that up!! You also helped me with my Fi Fe dilemma (I know this is of topic but wanted to thank you anyway!) -I am an Enneagram 9, which could be why I am warm and approachable, rather than indicating Fe.

    I still think JK Rowling is INFJ ... haven't read her books, but considering they were for children, she's probably done a decent job at depicting the main themes of life? Judging by the movies?

  5. #45
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Anyway, on-topic: I don't like this author or the fantasy genre in general. I think the fantasy genre is mistakenly associated with iNtuition, when fantasy itself is not iNtuition in the Jungian sense. So much in the fantasy genre is very straight-forward story-telling (fantastical elements, but lacking in real symbolism and developed themes, so that it's just action & plot in a whimsical setting), which is always how this author has struck me, although I am admittedly not well-acquainted with her books because their very concept doesn't interest me.
    Muggle.

    If you read the Harry Potter books, there are themes of social justice, discrimination and bullying. To say that the author just struck you as lacking in 'developed themes' is inaccurate.

    Whether you find its themes interesting is a whole different story. You need to remember that this is mostly aimed at children, and as such the themes are geared towards what they can relate to.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woaden View Post
    Muggle.

    If you read the Harry Potter books, there are themes of social justice, discrimination and bullying. To say that the author just struck you as lacking in 'developed themes' is inaccurate.

    Whether you find its themes interesting is a whole different story. You need to remember that this is mostly aimed at children, and as such the themes are geared towards what they can relate to.
    love your avatar. cary fukunaga is so dreamy

  7. #47
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Fe is the best at portraying what they want you to see. Not Fi. If you can tell the infj is angry, then they want you to know they are angry. Otherwise, they would easily hide it.

    Infps, I think, know what they are feeling very well usually, or can figure it out, but they might have a hard time getting that across to the other person, because of their lack of Fe. They also are very concerned that they are understood correctly.

    That is my experience anyway.
    I respectfully disagree somewhat with the bolded. I think it's often clear to others before it's even clear to the INFJ when an INFJ is agitated by something. I think this video's description is pretty dead on, when he says that we speak/express through feeling- but listen and focus on ideas. So something like anger bleeds through too easily- I think it's misleading to those who listen with feeling, it's like they sense way, way more urgency/significance than is actually there.

    I think we (INFJs) typically expect people to ignore it- and have no trouble ignoring it in each other, it even seems quite rude/thoughtless to point it out- but it does show. It's not that we expect people to be 'fake'- to think so is projecting a sense of immediate importance behind all feelings that we simply don't feel (it's not about 'hiding' it, it's about not seeing the importance in the first place)- it's just that the urgency some people feel to call attention to it (whether privately or publicly- though publicly feels especially rude/thoughtless) completely escapes us, and it feels rude because it puts us on the spot.


    [eta: I have no opinion on the op though, regarding JK Rowling.]
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  8. #48
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Her best written character is Luna Lovegood I believe. She was clearly an INFP. Harry and her had so much chemistry but the author made him marry that boring Ginny Weasley, who had to chemistry with Harry at all.

    ^ Unrelated to the topic I know.
    .
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  9. #49
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I respectfully disagree somewhat with the bolded. I think it's often clear to others before it's even clear to the INFJ when an INFJ is agitated by something. I think this video's description is pretty dead on, when he says that we speak/express through feeling- but listen and focus on ideas. So something like anger bleeds through too easily- I think it's misleading to those who listen with feeling, it's like they sense way, way more urgency/significance than is actually there.

    I think we (INFJs) typically expect people to ignore it- and have no trouble ignoring it in each other, it even seems quite rude/thoughtless to point it out- but it does show. It's not that we expect people to be 'fake'- to think so is projecting a sense of immediate importance behind all feelings that we simply don't feel (it's not about 'hiding' it, it's about not seeing the importance in the first place)- it's just that the urgency some people feel to call attention to it (whether privately or publicly- though publicly feels especially rude/thoughtless) completely escapes us, and it feels rude because it puts us on the spot.


    [eta: I have no opinion on the op though, regarding JK Rowling.]
    I agree with what you are saying, sure.

    But what I was referring to was as I said: anger. Not mere agitation. Anger would be a strong emotion, and strong emotions, being Fi, would be something that an INFJ would need to process a while before letting out, or letting others view it; the Ni is the gatekeeper and since Fi isn't very natural for an INFJ, and Ni can be time-consuming, it can take a while. Therefore, if an INFJ lets others see their anger it is either because they are allowing the others in after time has elapsed and this is a calculated 'allowing others to see their anger' (or maybe it is a recurrent source of anger and the infj is 'used' to it), or it is that the infj trusts the listener as a close friend, and is allowing the other to be privy to the inner workings of them as they process their feelings, Fi. I usually only have a couple people at any given time in my life who I will call to 'vent' to. Venting for me is really a process of working the Fi through the Ni.?

    Agitation is a side effect of the INFJ becoming off-kilter. A keen observer would be able to tell something was wrong, but the infj would likely not know themselves yet (as it takes time for Ni to process Fi), or would not care to include the observer in the infj's thought processes and will be evasive. The best evasion being to turn on bright and shiny Fe.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  10. #50
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Anyway, on-topic: I don't like this author or the fantasy genre in general. I think the fantasy genre is mistakenly associated with iNtuition, when fantasy itself is not iNtuition in the Jungian sense. So much in the fantasy genre is very straight-forward story-telling (fantastical elements, but lacking in real symbolism and developed themes, so that it's just action & plot in a whimsical setting), which is always how this author has struck me, although I am admittedly not well-acquainted with her books because their very concept doesn't interest me.
    If you don't like Rowling, that's fine; and (I'm betting that) as a card-carrying INFP, you read and loved The Phantom Tollbooth...which exemplifies the characteristics of the fantasy genre which you listed, viz.

    (fantastical elements, but lacking in real symbolism and developed themes, so that it's just action & plot in a whimsical setting)


    C.S. Lewis (Narnia) and J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings) each had fascinating comments on this:

    Lewis :
    The less known the real world is, the more plausibly your marvels can be located near at hand. As the area of knowledge spreads, you need to go further afield: like a man moving his house further and further out into the country as the new building estates catch him up. Thus in Grimm's Märchen, stories told by peasants in wooded country, you need only walk an hour's journey into the next forest to find a home for your witch or ogre. The author of Beowulf can put Grendel's lair in a place of which he himself says Nis paet feor heonon Mil-gemearces. Homer, writing for a maritime people has to take Odysseus several days' journey by sea before he meets Circe, Calypso, the Cyclops, or the Sirens. Old Irish has a form called the immram, a voyage among islands. Arthurian romance, oddly at first sight, seems usually content with the old Märchen machine of a neighboring forest. Chrétien and his successors knew a great deal of real geography. Perhaps the explanation is that these romances are chiefly written by Frenchmen about Britain, and Britain in the past. Huon of Bordeaux places Oberon in the East. Spenser invents a country not in our universe at all; Sidney goes to an imaginary past in Greece. By the eighteenth century we have to move well out into the country. Paltock and Swift take us to remote seas, Voltaire to America. Rider Haggard had to go to unexplored Africa or Tibet; Bulwer Lytton, to the depths of the Earth. It might have been predicted that stories of this kind would, sooner or later, have to leave Tellus altogether. We know now that where Haggard put She and Kôr we should really find groundnut schemes or Mau Mau.
    -- C.S. Lewis, On Science Fiction, from his collection of Essays entitled Of Other Worlds: Essays and Stories.
    I found the piece in its entirety here: Library : On Science Fiction - Catholic Culture

    J.R.R. Tolkien has an entire *essay* On Fairy Stories, which is too long (and too rich!) to quote here in its entirety.

    But a link is here:
    http://www.csun.edu/~dar04956/litera...irystories.pdf

    Straddling the line, between Phantom Tollbooth and more *serious* work, we have Narnia, The Chronicles of Prydain, The Artemis Fowl books (magic intermingled with technology), and oddly enough, Toy Story.

    All of these books combine the action and plot in a whimsical setting, or at least 'extranatural' if not supernatural...but also include themes such as sacrifice, redemption, moral quandries, perseverance, and good fellowship.

    Science fiction, itself, can shade from whiz-bang entertainment stretched over a thin framework of barely-defined philosophy (Star Wars), to rich worlds such as Dune, or James-Bond in space encompassing large-scale sociological commentary such as Dominic Flandry...on to Tolkien or soft-porn such as Gor.
    It seems that the more the plot involves fantastical elements, as you said, or quasi-supernatural, the more it deserves the label Fantasy: except when one gets to work such as Gor, (or related works such as Conan The Barbarian or Tarzan) which is an entirely different kind of, ahem, "fantasy" altogether...
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