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    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    How do you seperate your personal values from the impersonal?

    As we see that a typical problem for an NT is believing that everything is impersonal and therefore objective criticism can be applied to anything.

    And for an NF, believing that everything is personal and therefore all is immune to criticism.

    NFs, how do you manage to distinguish between the two, despite that the personal is almost always preponderous over the impersonal in your lives?
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    Senior Member meshou's Avatar
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    How do you seperate your impersonal values from your personal ones?

    How do you avoid bias when you completely refuse to agknowledge you're made of meat, and most of your a priori judgements must come from being an emotional, biological being?

    I think the answer is, you stretch yourself and you keep growing, you get a sense of what's appropriate where, and that's about all you can do.
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    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Distinguishing between personal and impersonal is usually tied to how close I am to the person speaking. With the people I'm close to, I tend to try and read between the lines, if you'll allow the expression, and draw a personal implication and application from what is said.

    I try to keep that in mind when speaking with those I'm close to. If I think an impersonal criticism of a concept will cause someone to see it as a personal judgment, I find another way to handle what I wanted to say.

    I rather like the impersonal for handling ideas, but I'm naturally sensitive to how such things may affect people in a personal way.

    The only time I really have an issue with taking the impersonal personally is when something impersonal comes across as an attack on my honor.

    I don't know if that helps at all.

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    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    I do ... somehow. I have two standards ... my own, and the rest of the world. I try to realize that people have different standards and values and try to recognize both. It broadens my horizons a bit and helps me to understand radically different points of view. I was not always able to do this. I didn't really find it until my late 30's.

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    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    How do you seperate your impersonal values from your personal ones?

    How do you avoid bias when you completely refuse to agknowledge you're made of meat, and most of your a priori judgements must come from being an emotional, biological being?

    I think the answer is, you stretch yourself and you keep growing, you get a sense of what's appropriate where, and that's about all you can do.



    this question is way too black and white. i will say - when people are involved, it's never totally impersonal. i'm sensitive to the ways that any issue can be personal to somebody. i try to respect that when dealing with people.

    if i have a necessary goal that requires me to step on someone's personal issue, i try to be careful, but if the goal is important, the goal is important. i do what i have to do... and usually what i have to do is for my wellbeing or someone else's, so it's still personal.
    INFJ

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    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    How do you seperate your personal values from the impersonal?

    As we see that a typical problem for an NT is believing that everything is impersonal and therefore objective criticism can be applied to anything.
    It seems ideal to be able to work in different systems. Identifying the nature of the problem to be solved is a first step. Figuring out what crop will grow best this season is not the same process as choosing a new puppy. If the best result does not involve human emotion - the successful crop produces income needed whereas the puppy choice is to bring a positive emotion and friendship. If an emotional outcome it central to the issue at hand, it only makes sense to factor it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    And for an NF, believing that everything is personal and therefore all is immune to criticism.
    I don't see why the personal is immune to criticism. How could people improve as parents, friends, teachers, etc. if they did not accept criticism to improve? It may just be more about the manner of criticism needing the reassurance that the personal bond is in tact before engaging the issue.
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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    It may just be more about the manner of criticism needing the reassurance that the personal bond is in tact before engaging the issue.
    Yes, it is the context of the criticism.

    T's are much more liable to leap straight into the criticism, assuming it will be considered independently of the value of the person.

    F's usually need to buffer criticism with some sort of affirmation before launching into the negatives.
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    Member Elwin_Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    F's usually need to buffer criticism with some sort of affirmation before launching into the negatives.
    That's probably completely true of me. I'm not perfectly certain that it's nature instead of nurture, however. With enough communication training, that concept becomes a natural tendency, however.

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    I make decisions on whether or not it will help me out. It's not necessarily moral or based on other people's feelings, but at the same time, it's based on personal values (myself) and not necessarily logic.

    So would that be a Thinking or Feeling trait?

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I make decisions on whether or not it will help me out. It's not necessarily moral or based on other people's feelings, but at the same time, it's based on personal values (myself) and not necessarily logic.

    So would that be a Thinking or Feeling trait?
    It's just called "self-interest." And it could be either, depending on why you're the focal point of your own endeavors.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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