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[INFJ] INFJ's don't know what they want.

blahblahbob

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Judgers, especially guardians, seem to spend more time trying to figure out what they want and are usually clearer on it (right or wrong) than perceivers. xxTJs seem to be the clearest. Usually if you ask a judger what they want (out of life, in a relationship, etc), they'll have a list. That said, I usually don't listen to much to what a feeler says regarding what they want. They are usually bending the truth to avoid criticism, saying something other than what they want to come across in (what they think is) a positive way, or think they know what they want, but are actually not being honest with themselves.

TJ's are all Fi - they're just as likely as other Fi's to "transmute" their emotions into a different manifestation.

An --FJ will frequently annoy a --TJ for this reason.
 

Cygnus

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I've always entertained the thought that IEIs were these lost, harp-playing nymphs that wandered the Earth alone on their vaguely-defined quest for the Golden Pillar.
ESIs are supposed to be the "Guardian" types and they're Ij temperament. Maybe that could suggest an Ip would be more "floating around." Take Pi-dominance plus Fe-Ti axis you described in disconnect from true desires, combine that with the insatiable Ni-Se axis and you got it.
 

faith

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A huge difficulty in my life has been that I know exactly what I want, but exactly what I want isn't an option. Which means I have to choose between varying areas and degrees of dissatisfaction. And for me, there are no varying degrees of dissatisfaction--they're all The Worst. Sucks for me. And I guess it's not very nice for those around me. I'm okay at compromise when it's based on an ideal I value, such as compromising for the sake of a relationship. But a big part of me feels it's weak and dishonorable to compromise for the sake of convenience. Perfection should be pursued.

For example, I'm a horrible shopping companion because I have to look at every single possibility in every possible store, and about a dozen items will have three good features and seven bad ones, so I must decide between which three good features I value the most and which seven bad features I can live with. And all that is NOT what I had in mind when I made the decision to shop for item X. Now I must reevaluate everything in relation to all ten possible features of item X, and then return to shop again on a later day. So I go home unhappy and empty handed because I failed to find exactly what I wanted, and I couldn't persuade myself to settle for anything less. When my shopping buddy thinks, "She just didn't know what she wanted," she's right to a certain extent: I didn't know which flawed thing I wanted because I didn't want ANY flawed thing!

I didn't settle on a career until I was 35--not because I didn't know what I wanted, but because I didn't know how to find what I wanted. I often think I'd be much happier if I didn't have such a clear vision of what I want. I always know what I want. But I never know how to give up on the ideal in my head when what I want seems unattainable.

In my opinion, it's not that INFJs don't know what they want but they don't know how to want something because the "how" is subservient to the why they should want it in the first place. The "why", of course, is defined by the ideal that they have set for themselves.

There might be some truth in this. I'm not very good at making flighty, whimsical decisions. I often wonder why people imagine they can convince me that I want something different, since the decision to want that thing is so weighty in the first place. How can they imagine that their paltry reasons can compare with all that lies behind the wanting of this thing?

This is not an uncommon trait in my family. We just call it stubbornness. We have a family story about an old ancestor who was sawing firewood to a particular length. The end of one piece was going to come just to the center of a knot, which would be very difficult to saw through. His friend suggested he cut the piece either longer or shorter, to avoid the knot. The old man growled, "I never go around a knot!" That's me, making things difficult because I can't bring myself to accept a "lesser" alternative.
 

greenfairy

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I usually know the inner concept of what I want, but get rather confused as to how to map that to reality.

Exactly. But do you have clear preferences on everyday things? Are you always certain that something you would like would be better than something else you would like, or that something unexpected that might happen wouldn't be better? Do you have conflicting desires?

(directed at everyone here as well)

I think for INFJs it's more common for them to ask themselves "what is needed" more than "what do I personally want/need?" because perhaps on a philosophical level they want to contribute to a good greater than themselves for which to strive. This becomes a basis for their careers or personal life in that everything they're doing integrates with this ideal in some way. If you notice their functions, they are so "anti-self"(NiFeTiSe). Perhaps the closest function that can assist the INFJ in assigning a value to something is Ti, and even that function just takes apart the rationale of wanting something because it's not a very strong function to begin with.

In my opinion, it's not that INFJs don't know what they want but they don't know how to want something because the "how" is subservient to the why they should want it in the first place. The "why", of course, is defined by the ideal that they have set for themselves.

This is kind of what I'm getting at too, at least in relation to me; I know abstract, big, idealistic things I want like out of life, but that doesn't always translate to something concrete.

Example: I think I want to get really good at Spanish. But studying is boring and I haven't done it for a really long time. So I guess one could say I don't really want it that much and just think I do. Maybe I'd rather do yoga. Maybe I like the idea of some things more than the things themselves.

Example: I think I want to live in New York. But maybe if it came down to it I would find out I didn't. And I haven't wanted to enough to actually try it yet, because apparently there were other things I felt more comfortable with. So do I want excitement or comfort more? I don't know. I don't know if I want to live there or not because I don't think I know enough to make an informed decision. I don't know where I want to live. I know all the characteristics of my ideal place, but I don't know if it exists.

Like one of you has said, I want it to be perfect or nothing.
 

Fidelia

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I identified with a lot of what [MENTION=97]faith[/MENTION] said. The other problem for me is that I will pick familiarity over novelty most of the time, as long as what is familiar isn't bad. I like knowing what I'm getting.
 

Ene

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My family has always described me as a tenacious, quiet, steady go-getter. I have always had a pretty clear picture of who I am, what matters to me and what I want. What I want stems from who I am, my core values, and while I may go with the flow on the surface, at the core I'm consistently working toward living the kind of life I envision. I constantly prioritize and work to maintain my focus on "the big picture."

I'd be lying if I said I didn't always have at least a skeleton outline of what I was up to. There is always a plan and usually a backup one, too.

The only time I don't know what I want is when I have to make an emotional decision. Then there is a struggle between my head and my heart (for example when my dog had cancer and I was forced to make a decision regarding his life.)



In matters of style or preference or things that carry no long term weight, I am like "just whatever,"
 

Z Buck McFate

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A huge difficulty in my life has been that I know exactly what I want, but exactly what I want isn't an option. Which means I have to choose between varying areas and degrees of dissatisfaction. And for me, there are no varying degrees of dissatisfaction--they're all The Worst. Sucks for me. And I guess it's not very nice for those around me. I'm okay at compromise when it's based on an ideal I value, such as compromising for the sake of a relationship. But a big part of me feels it's weak and dishonorable to compromise for the sake of convenience. Perfection should be pursued.

For example, I'm a horrible shopping companion because I have to look at every single possibility in every possible store, and about a dozen items will have three good features and seven bad ones, so I must decide between which three good features I value the most and which seven bad features I can live with. And all that is NOT what I had in mind when I made the decision to shop for item X. Now I must reevaluate everything in relation to all ten possible features of item X, and then return to shop again on a later day. So I go home unhappy and empty handed because I failed to find exactly what I wanted, and I couldn't persuade myself to settle for anything less. When my shopping buddy thinks, "She just didn't know what she wanted," she's right to a certain extent: I didn't know which flawed thing I wanted because I didn't want ANY flawed thing!

I didn't settle on a career until I was 35--not because I didn't know what I wanted, but because I didn't know how to find what I wanted. I often think I'd be much happier if I didn't have such a clear vision of what I want. I always know what I want. But I never know how to give up on the ideal in my head when what I want seems unattainable.

I can relate a lot to this.

There's something underlying in me that almost always already knows what I want, but the conflict I run into interacting with the external world is that I also always already know it isn't possible- there's what I want ideally and then there's what I estimate is reasonable/practical to expect (the 'wants' I'm willing to present to the world). It's always a matter of figuring out how much I should settle. And that's where I get lost and unsure.

I really hate feeling selfish and imposing expectations that seem unreasonable to others- yet at the same time, I invariably end up feeling absolutely miserable (bored out of my mind/overwhelmingly under-stimulated, or disheartened/depressed) if I compromise/settle too much. I try to surround myself with people who have similar ideals/goals for this reason- in attempt to marry the 'ideal' with reality, I need to interact with others who share a similar 'ideal'- as much as possible. The urge to not unreasonably impose my own 'wants' where they aren't shared is so strong that if/when I'm immersed in a group who doesn't seem to share my 'ideals' at all- when I feel pressured to settle for something far removed from what I actually want (this is something that happens in work environments more than friendships/relationships I think.....though I am exceptionally choosy about friends because of it)- then I'll feel myself starting to lose touch with what I want. That's really a horrible feeling. And by "immersed in a group"- that pretty much means any kind of interaction with another person, even if I'm referring to interaction with one single person outside myself. [And I'm not saying I think it's a good idea to only interact with like-minded people- I'm just saying that, I've found, I thrive at chiseling reality into something I love when I have someone on the outside of myself trying to get at the same thing, where I don't feel pressure to settle for something unsatisfying. eta: If I have that kind of support/foundation outside myself- e.g. having a co-worker who understands exactly why a supervisor is frustrating to me- then the pressure to settle for something I don't want/far removed from my own 'ideals' is infinitely more bearable, probably because that helps me stay in touch with 'what I want'.]

more eta:

The other problem for me is that I will pick familiarity over novelty most of the time, as long as what is familiar isn't bad. I like knowing what I'm getting.

This is a problem for me as well. I'll choose flaws I can anticipate over possible flaws that might completely take me by surprise. It's probably to compensate for my inability to interact very mercurially with my external environment- but that reticence has sometimes kept me in unfavorable situations.
 

greenfairy

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[MENTION=7842]Z Buck McFate[/MENTION]: I relate very much to needing to surround oneself with likeminded people, and also to knowing what I can anticipate.

(all of this: /Fe, btw I think, and then inf. Se)
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Exactly. But do you have clear preferences on everyday things? Are you always certain that something you would like would be better than something else you would like, or that something unexpected that might happen wouldn't be better? Do you have conflicting desires?
I have trouble identifying my preferences, and it is in part because I've always tended to give whomever I'm with the choice. It is also because it's easy for me to adapt to most things. When it is something a bit more personal like choice of food, I sometimes find something I like and stick to it.
 

Studmuffin23

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INFJs are frequently torn between their vision (Ni) and their compassion for others (Fe): these two come into conflict quite often.

Young INFJs have the most trouble with this. As I've gotten older, I've grown to be far less of a people-pleaser.
 

greenfairy

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I have trouble identifying my preferences, and it is in part because I've always tended to give whomever I'm with the choice. It is also because it's easy for me to adapt to most things. When it is something a bit more personal like choice of food, I sometimes find something I like and stick to it.
Me too.
 

Froody Blue Gem

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I think it is true. I mean, when I know I know but when I don't know... meh... When I think I know what I want or when I do know, I can be stubborn. In any other situation, this is not so much the case. It's hard for me to make decisions and I get pretty flustered. I may think that I want something but the thing I think that I want may not be what I actually want in reality. When I get it, I realize that I should be careful what I wish for. Or I think I don't want something that in reality would be good and beneficial.
 

Snow as White

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My brother is an INFJ and he's switched his goals and career quite often. Not because he's wishy washy but because he has run up against the tide of reality. He got his masters in psychology and wanted to be a therapist for families. This was amazing for about a year and then he just got burned out constantly having his empathy meter on and running. So he did a 2 year online MBA program in 8 months and switched into administrative healthcare. He's had to switch jobs about once a year as the situation changes (one boss kept trying to get him to have sex with her and when he wouldn't she started creating a false paper trail about how he was a bad employee.) now he's in a job he loves and is content but he still considers other options to see what else might be good. so i think ultimately INFJs know what they want but they are fluid with their plans and goals so to others it may appear like they don't know what they are doing.
 

Hellena Handbasket

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I find I either don't know what I want, or I know with absolute certainty and God help anyone who tries to stop me or change my mind.

My biggest issues arise when reality slaps me in my overly idealistic face and I have to regroup and start over or figure out where to go when things don't work out. So, I've learned that flexibility is a skill that has been worth honing.
 

cacaia

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My biggest issues arise when reality slaps me in my overly idealistic face and I have to regroup and start over or figure out where to go when things don't work out. So, I've learned that flexibility is a skill that has been worth honing.

This is exactly me.
 

cacaia

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I can relate. I still put others' needs above my own, but if I do it for too long, I go a little nutty and miss deadlines just because I want to write my poetry, and then I become extremely selfish before guilt catches up to me. So over the years, I've been getting better at asserting what I want and need so I don't have to see the nutty side of myself too often, but it does not come easily to me, that's for sure.
 

tommyc

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I dont worry about what I want, I just focus on being happy. If Im not happy, I change the situation. So in a sense the thread post is true, in that I dont always consciously know what I want, but my overall state of happiness reveals to me what I was looking for.
 
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neko 4

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I know what I want, and I want it now.
 
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