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Thread: NF Arrogance

  1. #61
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Salomé, is that you
    lol, no. But I miss her.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    NTs often dismiss emotions, but not because they don't think emotions are important (especially their own) but because they don't think emotions are relevant. For example, I don't think people's emotions are pertinent in this thread. The idea of emotions is germane since that is a topic of discussion. But not people's emotions themselves, since this is not a discussion about values but about truth--ie, is this argument true? Not is this argument good or bad?

    And it is because NTs are usually concerned with truth that they don't take emotions into consideration. Not because they don't think emotions and values are important.
    Very well said.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    I wonder if it's less about NFs thinking they're stronger with their weakness (for those who have noticed this about themselves), and more about having to defend having any strength at all in their 'weakness'. Seems as if they have to always be reminding someone that they are very capable of being rational in discussions like these, so maybe there is a connection.

    Either way, though, I haven't come across NFs who downplay their strengths (that I can remember right now). More often they have to explain that their strengths ARE strengths at the same time they have to explain that their 'weakness' can still be very strong.
    I did notice that, in both the NT and NF case, it's the T that's supposed to be valued, and the F that's supposed to be less important. So it's entirely possible the phenomenon (to the extent that it exists) is due to a societal pro-T bias.
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  4. #64
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I just have so much love to give. I cannot help myself.... So much love!




    While I do totally agree with you here. The one point where I diverge is that style does need to be taken into consideration (sometimes quite heavily). It can and does easily cause the other individual to shift how receptive they are to what you're trying to say and can ultimately make things counter-productive. If someone can't explain things in a way that isn't mean, overtly harsh, overly sarcastic, and a multitude of other distasteful manners I will write them off and ignore them. To me, not trying to shift is a sign of lacking in respect which I don't take well to. If they can't talk in a civil manner, they shouldn't be worth my time.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  5. #65
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    While I do totally agree with you here. The one point where I diverge is that style does need to be taken into consideration (sometimes quite heavily). It can and does easily cause the other individual to shift how receptive they are to what you're trying to say and can ultimately make things counter-productive. If someone can't explain things in a way that isn't mean, overtly harsh, overly sarcastic, and a multitude of other distasteful manners I will write them off and ignore them. To me, not trying to shift is a sign of lacking in respect which I don't take well to. If they can't talk in a civil manner, they shouldn't be worth my time.
    do you mean solely in debates?
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    do you mean solely in debates?
    For the most part (as that is the context of what she was referring to).

    Out side of that though, if someone isn't willing or able to be serious, friendly, or neutral for the majority of the time I will very often not take them seriously. People that are consistently sarcastic and trollish I usually end up hating and not give them attention or the time of day. I have one friend who is a slight exception to this because I have been around him for a long time and if he goes on too long I'll snap him out of it and he'll tone it back.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  7. #67
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    For the most part (as that is the context of what she was referring to).

    Out side of that though, if someone isn't willing or able to be serious, friendly, or neutral for the majority of the time I will very often not take them seriously. People that are consistently sarcastic and trollish I usually end up hating and not give them attention or the time of day. I have one friend who is a slight exception to this because I have been around him for a long time and if he goes on too long I'll snap him out of it and he'll tone it back.
    o ok.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #68
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    I did consider the argument, so by your reasoning doesn't that show I don't regard NFs as "illogical"?
    It was a joke.

    How often do you even hear NTs talking about emotions? Maybe this is why you don't hear it. I readily admit I'm better at handling logic than emotions.
    There are so many ways of talking about emotional elements that it can easily be done without even realising it. It's not always as literal as "I feel this" or "you feel that". The point is emotions and Feeling-based impressions govern far more of the world around us than NTs believe they do. They don't admit to being bad with emotions, because they often fail to recognise their existence and/or degree of influence in any one situation. Many NTs appear to believe that if they just ignore emotional elements then they will no longer be a factor. This is helpful for the process of Thinking, but it will fail to give them a complete picture of the world around them (and of themselves).

    NTs often dismiss emotions, but not because they don't think emotions are important (especially their own) but because they don't think emotions are relevant. For example, I don't think people's emotions are pertinent in this thread. The idea of emotions is germane since that is a topic of discussion. But not people's emotions themselves, since this is not a discussion about values but about truth--ie, is this argument true? Not is this argument good or bad?
    I get that, but emotional elements are part of this thread, and many other things in life, whether you like it or not. The issue is that, as objective as you claim to be, you are making subjective (emotional) choices about which information you deem significant or not in order to fulfil your pre-established beliefs. It's like the blind men and the elephant analogy. We all do this; it is human nature. But as @fia so brilliantly pointed out, NTs can be even more at risk for these sort of fallacies, because of the blind hubris of 'objectivity'. NFs accept the subjective nature of the world, and consequently their inclination to question the objective 'reality' can potentially put them in a far better position to assess the 'truth'.

    I offer this merely as a counter-argument and am not attempting to argue NFs are superior. Honestly, I believe there is value in both Thinking and Feeling; in NFs and NTs.

    No, what NTs mean when they say they are better at NT-type thinking is they are better at logic. At assessing the truth of propositions.
    Please. You honestly mean to say to me that you don't think NT style thinking more important/significant/valuable than NF style thinking?

    NTs are better at hard, impersonal logic - I have not issue with them saying so - but no one type is better at assessing Truth.

    If you don't explain it, then how can I be bothered to understand it?
    OA has been attempting it. I will defer to her.

    Do you have evidence NFs are "more capable of rational thought"?
    I said "more than capable", not "more capable".

    Show me where that ENFP says NFs can't think rationally?
    Show me where I claimed the ENFP did? You falsely attributed my statement to the wrong motivating thought. Another case where a little subjective, logical assessment would have helped you to comprehend the truth.

    On the contrary, he said NFs can think rationally, only not as well as NTs can. And since you admit you can't use Ti-Te as well as NTs, you apparently agree. So why your post? One word: Strawman.
    Oh no! You got me, oh wise-one!

    I find it highly ironic that this is itself a logical fallacy. Just because I said I'm not as good at using Ti an Te, it does not follow that this then makes me less rational. It is your assumption that Fi and Fe are less rational; I never argued this. What it does mean is that I'm not as good at hard, impersonal logic; it takes greater effort and concentration when going about it. However, this doesn't mean that in doing so I am, "inflating [my] perceived thinking abilities to compensate" (which is what I was actually arguing against). I am merely using an existing part of my brain and putting it to good use. I find it ridiculous (and insulting) that you basically attribute the appearance of intelligent thought in NFs primarily to a façade created out of insecurity.

    Also, "rational thinking" in the Jungian sense is used in both Feeling and Thinking. Jung defined the Judging functions as such. To say otherwise is to undermine the fundamentals of JCF, and by extension MBTI, which would render this whole discussion pretty pointless.
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  9. #69
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    What in the actual fuck
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
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    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

  10. #70
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    What in the actual fuck
    in the actual fuck if we're talking about how people are conceived, the man puts his penis into a woman's vagina they thrust and stuff then the dude ejaculates the woman's egg gets fertilized 9 or so months later a baby pops out.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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