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Thread: NF Arrogance

  1. #41
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Arrogance is not the type related only issue. Age, culture, context, etc. contribute to the "arrogance" vibe from somebody.
    I think Es tend to be perceived as arrogant quite often. I know a lot of Es in my life so I'll try to use them as example.

    My ESFJ mum is extremely humble and social. However, she can appear "arrogant" to certain people who have failed to prove to her that they are competent and efficient enough on numerous occasion. She would naturally give them instructions and micro-manage with a bit "bossy" tone.

    My ENFP best friend and other ENFP friends are the friendliest, most helpful and most modest folks, but NOT to everyone. They can be intimidating, bossy and quite arrogant to the newbies and the amateurs. These folks tone down with like-minded peers who are just as quick, witty and open-minded as them. I've witnessed ENFP arrogance, but never towards me. ENFP and INFP have mutual respect. ENFP can casually praise themselves with that wicked smile. I know these folks enough to understand that those are just their DIY doses of esteem boost.

    My ESTJ best friend (with almost balanced S-N) is the most well-mannered, thoughtful, caring and humble guy I've ever known. With people who've just known him? Not so much, they don't have the same access to him right away. To certain people, he can be bossy, extremely confident (which can be misinterpreted as "arrogant"), outspoken and he sticks to his gun in an argument because he's always sure he's right.

    My ENTP ex was by far the most outwardly arrogant person I've known. However, this guy is just ENTP to a T - curious, outspoken, playful, loud, scatterbrained and argumentative. He learns through interactions and as many angles and aspects of the same subject as possible. He tends to challenge/provoke people and learn about them through their reactions. Similar to my ENFP friends, he would casually praise himself and it takes somebody who really knows him to understand that it is just him boosting his own confidence, and he does have self doubts.

    Another good friend of mine is ENTJ, but she's just extremely humble. She's not NTJ at all in the sense of arrogance.

    I think Es tend to appear "arrogant" because they are more open about their ideals, beliefs and thoughts, and they have more confidence than most Is, hence more easily perceived so.

    INFPs are not immune to arrogance. Yet I can say that most INFP, especially INFP type 4 are not arrogant, though others tend to perceive us as such often. We have lots of troubles but "arrogance" by definition may not be one, or just the disguise of something else.
    Most INFPs feel anything BUT superiority or extreme self-importance. INFx e4 talk about higher self-importance quite often because it's something we struggle to feel, even to a moderate extent.
    INFx e4 can be assuming and extremely stubborn. But that doesn't mean we hold ourselves higher than everyone else or we think we've got it all. We're just very selective when it comes to whose opinions and knowledge we decide to let in, whose energy we decide to let effect us.
    INFx type 4 are fully aware of our defects, we do not whitewash them. We openly admit them, sometimes with passive aggressiveness and covered up anxiety, and that can drive people into believing that we're arrogant sometimes. If INFP appears arrogant, it's most likely their defensive mechanism speaking.

    I personally have never had experience with ENFJs.
    INFJ, among all NF, gives me the strongest "arrogance" vibe. However, I get along great with all INFJs in my life because I can see through that defensive exterior.

    In certain cultures, arrogance is considered one of the most undesirable traits, hence it is far less seen in these culture than in others.
    Last edited by Arctic Hysteria; 10-05-2014 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Re-worded to put points across correctly, after skylights & Deceptive quoted the part I thought I didn't write very carefully
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  2. #42
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    @Arctic Hysteria I don't agree that INFPs are never arrogant. Rarer than in some other types, probably, but it's not like we're somehow immune.

    Plus I thought being a 4 entailed feeling different/separate/unique/special - somehow removed from the masses. Is that not a variety of arrogance?

  3. #43
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    I can vow that INFP, especially INFP type 4 are NOT arrogant, no matter others tend to perceive us as such. We feel everything BUT superiority or self-importance.
    I disagree. Fi-doms (especially INFPs) are one of the most self-righteous types and I think it would do us good to address it.
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  4. #44
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    @Arctic Hysteria I don't agree that INFPs are never arrogant. Rarer than in some other types, probably, but it's not like we're somehow immune.

    Plus I thought being a 4 entailed feeling different/separate/unique/special - somehow removed from the masses. Is that not a variety of arrogance?
    My mistake. Okay. I should word that differently. There are arrogant INFP I'm sure. However, I've met INFPs who can appear arrogant even though they are not, it has to take one to know one. INFPs are easily mistaken as arrogant, due to the way we express ourselves to others sometimes, of course.

    As for type 4, and I am one, feeling different/separate/unique/special and removed from the mass is not necessarily associated with feeling superior or better than people. Being INFP type 4, some of the things I hate the most are talking about my achievements, collecting trophies, preaching and giving motivational speeches, that sort of thing. I hate that in others too. I'm always convinced that no matter what I do, there is somebody out there who can do it better. In numerous situations in life, I always tend to under-sell myself, in schools, in relationships, in my career.

    Identity crisis is type 4's lifetime struggle, but there's one thing we know we want and we strive for - authenticity and depth, even though sometimes we wish we had the kind of happiness that easily comes to people. We envy their goodness and lightness far too often. It just always takes something else for us to feel content and happy, though I doubt any type 4 ever felt fully so. It's unbearable, but over time we learn to accept that about ourselves and we won't lie to you by telling you that, whatever makes the rest content will make us.
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  5. #45
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    Hello NFs! Some of you may be familiar with the youtube channel, NFGeeks. In one video, Mike, the host of the channel, made the interesting observation that NTs are arrogant but in "the right way", while NFs are arrogant but in "the wrong way". By this he meant that NTs know that they are better at NT-type thinking and aren't shy to say it; at the same time, however, they also know they are bad at feelings and readily admit that. In contrast to this, NFs like to believe they are not only good at feelings but also just as good at NT-type thinking as NTs are, and become upset when challenged on this belief; funnily, he also quipped that after NFs take umbrage, they fall into a round of questioning and self-loathing, wondering if they were too insensitive to their critics! So NFs think they're good at what they're not naturally good at, while questioning the thing they are actually good at, and hence, "errant NF arrogance".
    Firstly, why are you even considering this argument? I mean it comes from a NF so it's illogical by default, right?

    Secondly, it's kinda bullshit, because NTs rarely admit they are bad at feelings. And when they do admit it, often they do so with disdain because they generally consider the emotional realm to be silly, trivial and irrelevant. In this case, admitting to not being good at it is a lot like 'admitting' you don't find Twilight intellectually stimulating - it's actually an indirect boast of superiority.

    Thirdly, what NTs (and clearly some pandering NFs too) really mean when they say they're better at NT-thinking is that they're better at serious, intellectual thought. No shit that NFs, "become upset when challenged on this belief" that we're capable of it. Why don't you just say, "stop pretending like you're smart"?

    Also, feelings ≠ Feeling. I can't be bothered actually explaining that for the Thousandth time, so I'm holding out that you might actually catch on.

    I also think it's possible NFs, and feelers in general, react to the negative stigma attached to feeling and emotions by inflating their perceived thinking abilities to compensate.
    Have you considered for a second that it's not compensating and that maybe NFs are actually more than capable of rational thought? Or do you just sigh patronizingly and shake your head in amusement like we're monkeys dressed up like humans, riding around on tricycles?

    I'm not going to pretend that I'm better at using Te or Ti than NTs, but I don't think that means that I should never dare question a NT's logic or judgement, or debate with them. I certainly don't see how it's arrogance, overcompensation, or an act of denial for me to engage in logical argument.



    Also, everything @skylights said...


    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I'm tired of schooling people on this topic.
    But you know if you don't do it, no one will...

    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte
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  6. #46
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    @OrangeAppled

    If one examines what you've said, this is what it comes down to. Feeling and thinking are both cognitive functions (cfs). Feeling supposedly isn't emotions, but there is no clear line between cfs and emotions, so for all intents and purposes, emotions are part of the cfs. But feeling is not a "real-time thought process" like thinking is, so they are two distinct fcns. Thinking, at least in T-doms, doesn't access emotions so is separate from them. Feeling uses emotions so is close to them. The P fcns don't access emotions, so they are separate from them. So emotions are exclusively connected to feeling. But there is no clear line between feeling and emotions--since there is no clear line between cfs and emotions--so feeling and emotions are, for all intents and purposes, identical. So the picture you paint is distinct cfs T and F, where T excludes emotions and F is indistinguishable from emotions.

    So how is this really different than MBTI?

    The only thing you've really changed is hiding emotions inside the cfs, rather than identifying them up front with feeling. This is a sleight of hand since it gives the appearance of making emotions disappear in the cfs. But they can't disappear because both T and the P fcns exclude emotions, leaving only feeling to carry them, thus making them indistinguishable from each other. So when examined from an objective pov, there is no real difference between what you described and MBTI, not wrt the identity of feeling and emotions.

    One can see this in your description of feeling:

    Quote Originally Posted by orangeappled
    There is no actual Feeling thought process(es) in reality; it's about the ego, not specific, real time thought processes we use.
    So feeling is not a "thought process" like a logic thought process, it is just part of the "ego" and not any "specific, real time thought process". How is this different than emotions?

    Your whole demonstration is an illusion, poorly disguised in bluster and insinuation, and motivated ultimately by you-know-what.

  7. #47
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlascatcher View Post


    For me, the entire premise of this post was discredited after you mentioned the question stemming from NFGeeks.
    You don't think questions should be considered on their own merits? That only some people's questions should be taken seriously, and only because those ppl are who they are and not because of their questions?

    I don't think "NT-type thinking" and "feelings" are related to type. If you want to rephrase your [quoted] question, [excuse me] discussing which types are better at Te/Fi and Ti/Fe, you might have an argument.
    So you don't think INTPs, for example, use logic more than feeling in their judgments?

  8. #48
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    E types are more arrogant then I types. N types seem to be more arrogant then S types. T types seem to be more arrogant then F. And I really don't know about P vs J arrogant. I think they are equal in amount of arrogance
    You have E and T: are you saying you're arrogant?

    That is kinda arrogant of you to say, though, isn't it?

  9. #49
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    From what I have seen NF does wish they were better at Ti combined with Se, just as I was better at Ne Fi. Enough to be envious, but not in an unhealthy way. Think its more Ne butting heads then has to do with T

    Edit: lmao...aren't N types suppose to get along better with N types?
    Not, apparently, when Fi feels--rightly or wrongly--it's been stepped on.

  10. #50
    Member doppelganger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Demanding NFs who should only have to say it's not true for them to prove it is just ridiculous and, yes, insulting. To quote you with one word added:
    If putting words in my mouth is the only way you can make a point, then knock yourself out, ENTP.

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