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  1. #21
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Dom Fi + Ne/Si certainly has its weaknesses, but like OA said, I think that Fi is a fairly misunderstood function in the sense of how it works as a Judging - analytical and weighing - process. It gets a reputation for being fluffy or oversensitive, as what people do not tend to see is the intricacy of thought and strength of value going into our judgments. They can't get inside our heads, after all, unfortunately for them.

    And, while Fi might be a unique challenge to deal with in a partner (as if some others aren't... Fe? Ti?!? ), I think it also has a particular strength in a relationship when it comes to gauging the holistic wellbeing of the pairing as well as the individual wellbeing of each participant. We have an especially good "radar" for how each person is doing and for what can be done to make them feel more fulfilled and whole.

    I also do think what others have pointed out about NFP idealism is true as well... We are hard to please, plus Ne makes us exploratory. That can yield an internal challenge to be happy with reality and without seeking something better. (I do think probably some of the inadequacy feelings are a 4 or 4w5 thing more than an MBTI thing. I have a bit of a different set of concerns as a 6.) At the same time, speaking of Fi strengths - I think we are less likely to misread the quality of someone's character. We probably tend to avoid some of the pitfalls other types can more easily get caught in, like staying with someone who is unsure they want a relationship. One of the qualities of Fi is to be more unyielding, and less likely to allow violation of our wellbeing. I say this because I have a few friends who are feeling the impact of giving a bit too much leeway in their relationships right now... And I think those situations are something IxFPs are far less likely to find themselves in.

    As for reddit... I think take any compilation of opinion on the internet with a grain of salt. When I was exploring careers, I developed a (bad, in retrospect) habit for a while of researching people's career experiences online. They seemed to always be overwhelmingly negative. After becoming increasingly terrified of everything I was researching, I realized that this probably has more to do with the internet than reality. It's a place where you can freely dump venting with no consequence. And the people who are happy - with their careers, with their relationships - are less likely to be venting online and more likely to just be living and enjoying their lives. Internet opinion tends to be skewed negative.

    My final thought is, at least for myself, I have discovered that it is my pattern in life to tend to take longer than average to get around to things. Reading... Writing... Peer socialization... Choosing a major... I tend to hold back and observe for a long time. But then, when I do enter the fray, I tend to do well. Relationships have been no different for me. I didn't enter a serious relationship until my early twenties. Now I am a little more than three years into it and still very happy. So no, I do not think it is impossible for us to find fulfilling romantic love.

    I do agree, however, to being hopeless at double posting.
    heyhey i'm new here!! go easy on me

    what is the MBTI type of your partner?

  2. #22
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvery sleeves View Post
    Enneagram fours.
    yup. self-shaming is a pretty big burden on another person. without healthy self-esteem and real confidence that you can meet your own needs, you just are stuck needing a LOT. for myself, i idealized romantic love so fully, when really self-discipline is the vehicle to realize a kind of love that isn't simply codependency (but an ongoing free choice i continue to make because when i dig deep, i know what's true for me enough to choose a damn path and live with it!).

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    And, while Fi might be a unique challenge to deal with in a partner (as if some others aren't... Fe? Ti?!? ), I think it also has a particular strength in a relationship when it comes to gauging the holistic wellbeing of the pairing as well as the individual wellbeing of each participant. We have an especially good "radar" for how each person is doing and for what can be done to make them feel more fulfilled and whole.
    yeah, i find a kind of emotional anchoring with Fi types that is refreshing. centered, steady Fi doesn't get distracted by market bullshit as easily. all types that learn how to really appreciate what home is and how to be in that place the best and most peacefully they can have a huge advantage when it comes to developing authentic, grounded relationships.

    I also do think what others have pointed out about NFP idealism is true as well... We are hard to please, plus Ne makes us exploratory. That can yield an internal challenge to be happy with reality and without seeking something better. (I do think probably some of the inadequacy feelings are a 4 or 4w5 thing more than an MBTI thing. I have a bit of a different set of concerns as a 6.) At the same time, speaking of Fi strengths - I think we are less likely to misread the quality of someone's character. We probably tend to avoid some of the pitfalls other types can more easily get caught in, like staying with someone who is unsure they want a relationship. One of the qualities of Fi is to be more unyielding, and less likely to allow violation of our wellbeing. I say this because I have a few friends who are feeling the impact of giving a bit too much leeway in their relationships right now... And I think those situations are something IxFPs are far less likely to find themselves in.
    re: exploratory. i think of the movie vicky christina barcelona and the j character contrasting scarlet johansen. she can say she's closed all she wants, but we all are forced to explore and be open to what is happening right now. being aware of what is really happening for you and what is really possible, while it feels super threatening to a j, is also necessary to skillfully work with what does come up, rather than trying to quarantine and avoid and feel like, when it catches you, you don't have the resources to really deal with it from a place that is balanced and deserves to lead the process for your whole self.



    i personally think i've noticed infps having more trouble accepting a partner than being appreciated. and 4s tend to have trouble accepting and appreciating themselves, so when it comes to giving themselves, it's hard to really trust the value of that and be willing to sit with the differences and the feelings of dismissal when others don't know how to receive it as the 4 had hoped they would. i think all F types have to let go of some things that feel pretty central to who they are and what they stand for in order to allow someone else to be where they are at (while still committing to each other and sacrificing to do so).

    for me, i notice that while i'm attracted to infps quite frequently, especially with all of the enneagram dynamics that make it so easy to appreciate each other and relate to core motivations and aesthetics and worldviews that have much in common, i also realize that it isn't always the most complementary in terms of the most concrete aspects of partnership. and we can be missing some basic functionality that might be better served with some extraversion, social networking, logical problem-solving, attention to detail, financial and pragmatic health, easier communication, etc. which is not to say that it wouldn't work, just that this is my way of describing some of the unique challenges that have as much to do with where i am at in terms of managing and relating to myself as it does on speaking about the inherent, essentialized "value" of infps to me.

    i would also guess 1s and 5s tend to be late wedders. i sure feel like i've had a lot of work to do to get to the point where i am just starting to have faith that i can continue to have my relationship needs met by another person who i find fulfilling and want to help fulfill too. 1s, meanwhile, are usually self-sufficient and disciplined enough that they don't feel like they need someone unless that person feels really right.

  3. #23
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle
    heyhey i'm new here!! go easy on me!!

    what is the MBTI type of your partner?
    My apologies if my post was overwhelming. My intention was to bolster you, but I am a bit inclined towards accidentally writing persuasive essays.

    My partner is an ISFJ - hence the Fe/Ti jokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    for myself, i idealized romantic love so fully, when really self-discipline is the vehicle to realize a kind of love that isn't simply codependency (but an ongoing free choice i continue to make because when i dig deep, i know what's true for me enough to choose a damn path and live with it!).
    Me too... It has been a two-step process of, first, even being willing to let my guard down to trust that someone else might actually accept me with all my flaws... And second, learning to appreciate real loving gestures even if they aren't the idealistic demonstrations in my dreams... It's hard to hold out and trust, sometimes, that reality can ever live up to the beauty that you've dreamed... Which it can... But it's far better when you learn to let go and stop waiting for it to happen the exact way you envisioned it happening, and just enjoy the ride...

    yeah, i find a kind of emotional anchoring with Fi types that is refreshing. centered, steady Fi doesn't get distracted by market bullshit as easily. all types that learn how to really appreciate what home is and how to be in that place the best and most peacefully they can have a huge advantage when it comes to developing authentic, grounded relationships.
    Yeah. I think sp has an advantage here too. Groundedness.

    i personally think i've noticed infps having more trouble accepting a partner than being appreciated. [...] i think all F types have to let go of some things that feel pretty central to who they are and what they stand for in order to allow someone else to be where they are at (while still committing to each other and sacrificing to do so).
    This is so, so true. Becoming someone's partner is to give up part of the self, to let that part be impacted by your partner without reserve. Even "malleable" Ps can find it surprising, how hard it is to trust part of the self that has been cultivated and to give it to someone whose actions you can't predict completely or who you might disagree with in matters of identity and ethics.

    i would also guess 1s and 5s tend to be late wedders. i sure feel like i've had a lot of work to do to get to the point where i am just starting to have faith that i can continue to have my relationship needs met by another person who i find fulfilling and want to help fulfill too. 1s, meanwhile, are usually self-sufficient and disciplined enough that they don't feel like they need someone unless that person feels really right.
    Yeah. I can't speak to the 5 but I see some of that 1 quality in my boyfriend, who is a sp-first 9w1. He has decided for himself that he wants to be out of school before even considering it. He says that he wants to have himself in order first before including another person in his responsibility set. It's interesting how clear of a difference it makes to him on a practical level. To me the difference is more on an emotional level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle
    heyhey i'm new here!! go easy on me!!

    what is the MBTI type of your partner?
    My apologies if my post was overwhelming. My intention was to bolster you, but I am a bit inclined towards accidentally writing persuasive essays.

    My partner is an ISFJ - hence the Fe/Ti jokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    for myself, i idealized romantic love so fully, when really self-discipline is the vehicle to realize a kind of love that isn't simply codependency (but an ongoing free choice i continue to make because when i dig deep, i know what's true for me enough to choose a damn path and live with it!).
    Me too... It has been a two-step process of, first, even being willing to let my guard down to trust that someone else might actually accept me with all my flaws... And second, learning to appreciate real loving gestures even if they aren't the idealistic demonstrations in my dreams... It's hard to hold out and trust, sometimes, that reality can ever live up to the beauty that you've dreamed... Which it can... But it's far better when you learn to let go and stop waiting for it to happen the exact way you envisioned it happening, and just enjoy the ride...

    yeah, i find a kind of emotional anchoring with Fi types that is refreshing. centered, steady Fi doesn't get distracted by market bullshit as easily. all types that learn how to really appreciate what home is and how to be in that place the best and most peacefully they can have a huge advantage when it comes to developing authentic, grounded relationships.
    Yeah. I think sp has an advantage here too. Groundedness.

    i personally think i've noticed infps having more trouble accepting a partner than being appreciated. [...] i think all F types have to let go of some things that feel pretty central to who they are and what they stand for in order to allow someone else to be where they are at (while still committing to each other and sacrificing to do so).
    This is so, so true. Becoming someone's partner is to give up part of the self, to let that part be impacted by your partner without reserve. Even "malleable" Ps can find it surprising, how hard it is to trust part of the self that has been cultivated and to give it to someone whose actions you can't predict completely or who you might disagree with in matters of identity and ethics.

    i would also guess 1s and 5s tend to be late wedders. i sure feel like i've had a lot of work to do to get to the point where i am just starting to have faith that i can continue to have my relationship needs met by another person who i find fulfilling and want to help fulfill too. 1s, meanwhile, are usually self-sufficient and disciplined enough that they don't feel like they need someone unless that person feels really right.
    Yeah. I can't speak to the 5 but I see some of that 1 quality in my boyfriend, who is a sp-first 9w1. He has decided for himself that he wants to be out of school before even considering it. He says that he wants to have himself in order first before including another person in his responsibility set. It's interesting how clear of a difference it makes to him on a practical level. To me the difference is more on an emotional level.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Oh man, I dated a very immature INFP (I was also very immature). Towards the end, when I was trying to pry her off of me with a crowbar, she was not getting the memo. She was stuck in tragic romance mode: Of course we're having troubles. I was meant to suffer for our love. Behind every beautiful thing there is pain! This was very hard for me (and I'm sure it was hard for her too), because I usually break up with people in a very gentle way, but this relationship needed the "Old Yeller Treatment".

    Mind you, I'm a million times more annoying, just not in that specific way. In our relationship, I would wake up every morning as a brand new person, with a brand new scheme and direction in life. I'm very manic and flaky.

    Edit: Just to be clear though, NO. INFP's are not hopeless when it comes to love. Some are, some aren't, like most types. Some INFP's just build up love too much as The Big Thing, which it can never quite live up to.

  5. #25
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    Awkward thread title, but can't change it apparently. Anyway.

    That's the sense I get from perusing reddit, here, and various forums.
    Other types strongly prefer non-INFPs, and often describe past relationships with INFPs as horrible experiences.
    Does our Dom-Fi make us largely unloveable? I feel like people mainly talk about it as a weakness.
    Do most of us find it impossible to be in a fulfulling, romantic love?
    Feel a bit disheartened the more I read about INFPs and how others perceive us :/
    I know I shouldn't let it get to me but I feel so similar to many INFPs that post, and
    I can't imagine I'll experience things much better.

    Are INFPs hopeless at not double posting? THIS one is.
    Wow. That surprises me, but I think it shows that we are most aware of criticisms against our own specific types. There is just no way that INFPs are a particular problem in relationships. I've only known one that looked like she was more of a taker, but she was also likely neglected during her early development. Also, she was really sweet and idealistic, she just created a vastly complex set of needs that her ISFJ husband worked himself to the bone to fulfill, and she could get forceful when her needs weren't met, but that isn't an INFP thing, but related to those early childhood attachment issues.

    I have a couple of female INFP friends and for their relationships I would say that they kinda drifted into these because the man was assertive, so they are now struggling with issues of self actualization. The only thing I've tended to notice with the majority of INFPs is a somewhat distant, autonomous personality, but that can be very healthy in a relationship where you live with the person all the time because everyone needs some space. I know a musician guy that I think is an INFP and he always seemed rather sad and distant, but he recently got a fun, quirky girlfriend who I think is a professional comedian, and it looks like they are having tremendous fun together. He communication complete adoration of her.

    I suspect there are INFP-related issues that can make it difficult to get relationships going, which includes their quiet distance, autonomy, and need for authenticity. Most dating is ritualistic and fake.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  6. #26
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Oh man, I dated a very immature INFP (I was also very immature). Towards the end, when I was trying to pry her off of me with a crowbar, she was not getting the memo. She was stuck in tragic romance mode: Of course we're having troubles. I was meant to suffer for our love. Behind every beautiful thing there is pain! This was very hard for me (and I'm sure it was hard for her too), because I usually break up with people in a very gentle way, but this relationship needed the "Old Yeller Treatment".

    Mind you, I'm a million times more annoying, just not in that specific way. In our relationship, I would wake up every morning as a brand new person, with a brand new scheme and direction in life. I'm very manic and flaky.

    Edit: Just to be clear though, NO. INFP's are not hopeless when it comes to love. Some are, some aren't, like most types. Some INFP's just build up love too much as The Big Thing, which it can never quite live up to.
    LOL pretty much all threads about INFP relationships (on reddit at least) consist mainly of other types discussing horrible past relationships with INFPs...

  7. #27
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    I think INFP's are AMAZING!

    Always have.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  8. #28
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Most dating is ritualistic and fake.
    It is, isn't it? But being ritualistic and fake, dating hides and protects our authentic self. The problem is when we prefer to be ritualistic and fake rather than authentic.

    And being ritualistic and fake is kinda clever, even cool. If we could spend the rest of our life being ritualistic and fake, we need never get hurt.

    Ah Fia, if only we were both available, we would go on ritualistic and fake dates, never being hurt, being completely painless, all without drugs. We would be so smart and cool, everyone would envy us, even ourselves.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Nara's Avatar
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    I think this is a 4's more than an INFP issue.
    What can be a turn off is that most 4s have a natural penchant for living in their own head and nurturing an idealized version of what relationships should be with their vivid imagination. The actual relationship (which could be very satisfying for the other one) could be quite disappointing for them.
    Then real communication can be difficult, there's something like a veil of shame above what we think is inappropriate within ourselves which is generally a deep desire for authenticity and intensity.

    All is about how to express yourself appropriately which means stop focusing on your inner world, allow yourself to let go of your dream of perfection (don't think it's because you're not allowed to have what others seem to get easily) and try to understand the expectations of the other one, their "love language".
    Don't think you're deficient, or unlucky (I know it's very common), you just have expectations that could be difficult to match.

    Other thing that I found thanks to a close friend of mine who's also a 4 (and INFP considering himself as hopeless in love) is that the true deep fear could be that the relationship actually work out.
    Why is that ?
    Because it will blow away all your previous beliefs (about our so called deficiency, incapacity of living something normal and all), so basically all the ideas which were your identity foundations. To get rid of your problems is to get rid of your identity* .
    And if it worked out, then you would have to confront with your most threatened fears (abandonment for instance). But if you avoid it, these fears will never leave you ("what resists persists").
    Never forget the power of your beliefs (and unconscious self-sabotaging).

    *I found this quote from Jodorowski's book Dance of Reality very enlightening: "We only have problems we really want to have. We are attached to our difficulties. They are our identity. We define ourselves through them. Nothing comes as a surprise. So, those who pussyfoot around and arrange to sabotage the act do not truly want to cure themselves. To get out of my difficulties implies that I deeply modify my relationship with myself and with all of my past. People don't want to suffer but they are not willing to pay the price, that is to say, changing, and no longer living according to our precious problems."
    (sorry for the approximative translation)
    To exist is to change, to change is to mature, to mature is to go on creating oneself endlessly.
    Henri Bergson

    C'est faux de dire: Je pense : on devrait dire : On me pense.
    It is wrong to say: I think. One should say: I am thought.
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    Likes OrangeAppled, uumlau liked this post

  10. #30
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    I think this is a 4's more than an INFP issue.
    What can be a turn off is that most 4s have a natural penchant for living in their own head and nurturing an idealized version of what relationships should be with their vivid imagination. The actual relationship (which could be very satisfying for the other one) could be quite disappointing for them.
    Then real communication can be difficult, there's something like a veil of shame above what we think is inappropriate within ourselves which is generally a deep desire for authenticity and intensity.

    All is about how to express yourself appropriately which means stop focusing on your inner world, allow yourself to let go of your dream of perfection (don't think it's because you're not allowed to have what others seem to get easily) and try to understand the expectations of the other one, their "love language".
    Don't think you're deficient, or unlucky (I know it's very common), you just have expectations that could be difficult to match.

    Other thing that I found thanks to a close friend of mine who's also a 4 (and INFP considering himself as hopeless in love) is that the true deep fear could be that the relationship actually work out.
    Why is that ?
    Because it will blow away all your previous beliefs (about our so called deficiency, incapacity of living something normal and all), so basically all the ideas which were your identity foundations. To get rid of your problems is to get rid of your identity* .
    And if it worked out, then you would have to confront with your most threatened fears (abandonment for instance). But if you avoid it, these fears will never leave you ("what resists persists").
    Never forget the power of your beliefs (and unconscious self-sabotaging).

    *I found this quote from Jodorowski's book Dance of Reality very enlightening: "We only have problems we really want to have. We are attached to our difficulties. They are our identity. We define ourselves through them. Nothing comes as a surprise. So, those who pussyfoot around and arrange to sabotage the act do not truly want to cure themselves. To get out of my difficulties implies that I deeply modify my relationship with myself and with all of my past. People don't want to suffer but they are not willing to pay the price, that is to say, changing, and no longer living according to our precious problems."
    (sorry for the approximative translation)
    this is very insightful. i am at work, otherwise i would respond more in depth.
    what is your tritype?
    i am 4w5 9w8 5w4
    can't find much on it anywhere!

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