[INFJ] INFJ and Fi, do you relate to this?

[infiniterandomness11]

Fellow INFJs, I would like your opinion in regard to an article I recently found (here's the link ):
http://http://www.stellarmaze.com/2014/05/22/fi-in-infjs/

I would like to highlight several points I could relate to:

INFJs are commonly described as having a special capacity to read people being able to see into the deepest recesses of their character to decipher their motivations. The INFJ is frequently described as empathetic, which means they have the ability to inhabit another person’s emotional being and know what they are feeling, even if this other person gives no visible outward signs of these feelings.

These abilities could be partly ascribed to the dominant Ni process of the INFJ type, and it is true that it does have a part in this, but this ability of the INFJ to read into a person’s inner nature is Fi in nature too.

Fi assumes the position of the id function in an INFJ. The id function represents a process that is strong but regressive in nature. INFJs are very strong in Fi but it threatens to pull them back into a state of infancy.

This is especially true when I am confronted to a stressful and unpleasant situation.

For INFJ, all the negative emotional experience that they have collected over the years will begin to be resolved the moment they attempt to express them in some medium (instead of trying to figure them out, ponder the significance of them or talk themselves into why they must be such bad people because they have all this emotional negativity). Fe is an opportunity for the INFJ to express the depth of their feelings similar to how a spout provides an outlet for a container to pour out its contents. If they don’t open the spout, the feelings build up, ferment and become poisonous. INFJs are primed to be collectors or containers of negative emotional experience. They often attract them unconsciously to themselves by acting as people’s confessors. These feelings quietly fill them up until they become more and more weighed down with all the vagaries of existence. With just a little conscious will, they could just as easily begin to drain themselves via Fe, which in contradistinction to their experience of Fi, is a complete joy to them.

Do INFJ have this habit of repressing negative emotions and thoughts, due to Fe which is likely to consider interpersonal harmony and the tendency to avoid conflicts?

Will be patiently waiting for replies and prospective discussions on this topic

 

[skylights]

I love the topic idea and would love to be audience to an INFJ-dominated conversation to follow. I am interested to learn more about your inner workings.

But with all due respect to INFJs having an INFJ conversation about INFJness, I do not think the article author engages Fi as well as he thinks he does, because it just does not make sense in Fi-land to claim good usage of someone else's primary function and subsequently insult their primary usage of it. So, as the author does not appear to really understand Fi, I am not really sure that the article itself contains good examples of INFJs using Fi. Though I do believe you guys can engage it and am curious to hear how it works for you.

 

[olivetti]

I think what you're describing is what some call the "Ni-Ti" loop, but I'm torn on whether or not I believe in it. I've seen pros and cons on the idea (here's one con: Introspective to a Fault: Critique of the So-Called Ni/Ti Loop) and admittedly some of the idea intrigues me. But really, anyone can have poisonous thoughts if they allow them to build over time. I'm not sure we can say only INFJs repress their emotions; possibly everyone does to some degree. But do INFJs repress to a greater degree with greater consequences? That's something I don't know.

For me, I do need a way to express myself. But sometimes I can be so worn out and tired I feel like doing nothing (tho' I attribute that to being a 9w1). When I'm fed up with negative thoughts or I'm frustrated to the brim I often withdraw to recharge. I'd say it's not that an INFJ is tapping into Fi, but rather they're not allowing themselves to use Fe. To me, there's a distinct difference. When we push away Fe, when we have to withdraw, it doesn't mean we're using Fi. At least, that's not my understanding of Fe.

But I'm definitely interested in hearing others' thoughts on the idea.

 

[infiniterandomness11]

First, thank you for your reply skylights! This thread is, of course, not restricted to INFJs and I would be glad if other personality types could contribute to this topic. I posted it out of mere curiosity and because I am aware that I am still an amateur in matters of understanding cognitive functions and the shadow process.

The main purpose of this thread was to see how different INFJs experience their emotions during phases of distress, especially on the process of repression and the conflict between Fe/Fi (mostly because I am perplexed about the definitions of these two functions), that is why I have highlighted certain parts of the article. However, I would like to clarify the definition of Fi from the INFPs, which serves them as their primarily function.

 

[periwinklepromise]

I am undeniably INFJ, but I've done a lot of conscious development of Fi in recent years, so I feel like there's a lot I can offer.

My insight and empathy (using very simplified shorthand here) are certainly rooted in Ni and Fe respectively. My Ni generates possibilities and my Fe allows for a strong connection with people, which lets my Ni gather more information for the insight, so it grows increasingly accurate.

While I do agree that Fi can read into a person's inner nature, it's not my preference, and I never use Fi for that reason. Fi, for me (which ftr is strong, but not very sophisticated), is very focused on just me, on my beliefs and values and personal priorities; I honestly don't think my Fi is strong enough to use in this "inner nature" capacity, especially since I trust my Ni and Fe to do the same thing, but better (since they come more naturally to me).

 

[Z Buck McFate]

But with all due respect to INFJs having an INFJ conversation about INFJness, I do not think the article author engages Fi as well as he thinks he does, because it just does not make sense in Fi-land to claim good usage of someone else's primary function and subsequently insult their primary usage of it. So, as the author does not appear to really understand Fi, I am not really sure that the article itself contains good examples of INFJs using Fi. Though I do believe you guys can engage it and am curious to hear how it works for you.

Yeah, I think this is the result of people ascribing Introverted Feeling with certain qualities of character instead of defining it as the process by which those end products are sought. Those end products/character qualities are not as type related as most Fi descriptions make them out to be. This has the consequence of people applying “Fi” where those end products are largely (and wrongly) associated with Fi.

INFJs have a lot of those qualities regularly associated with Fi- but use little to none (and I'm thinking it's more of 'none') of the Fi process.



(The link in the op doesn't work for me, so I can't comment directly on it.)

 

[pmj85]

I can't relate.

A typical INFJ is likely to be unaware of their inner-emotional states, and I have discussed this at reasonable length quite a few times; I may yet write an article, or something.

It can take me hours, days or sometimes even a week or more to really understand why I feel the way I do. My inner world is tended to by Ti. I'm far more prone to analyse rather than 'feel', although extreme emotions can overwhelm me. For example, if something awful happens and I am made to feel sad, there won't be any... uh... (see? I have no frame of reference here) 'flavour' (?!) to the emotion. It will simply be a heaviness deep within, robbing me of energy and shaping my perceptions, painting reality in a duller light than normal.

Ach. See? It's hard. Fi isn't something I do, or get... and to be perfectly honest, the thought of truly understanding and being at one with my emotions scares the shit out of me.

 

[sculpting]

It can take me hours, days or sometimes even a week or more to really understand why I feel the way I do. My inner world is tended to by Ti. I'm far more prone to analyse rather than 'feel', although extreme emotions can overwhelm me. For example, if something awful happens and I am made to feel sad, there won't be any... uh... (see? I have no frame of reference here) 'flavour' (?!) to the emotion. It will simply be a heaviness deep within, robbing me of energy and shaping my perceptions, painting reality in a duller light than normal.

Ach. See? It's hard. Fi isn't something I do, or get... and to be perfectly honest, the thought of truly understanding and being at one with my emotions scares the shit out of me.

There were parts of your post that strike me as being similar to an enfp-perhaps due to both being dominant perceivers.

hmm, for myself, in a similar fashion to your above statement-it can take days, weeks etc to identify why I feel the way I do (Ne keeps scurrying around trying to pin down Fi). It is much simpler to just go, "Nope" lets go NeTe some stuff in the real world-thats easy.

And, like you, when emotionally extreme, it can be overwhelming, resulting in inappropriate externalization of emotion (the curse of extroversion,)

But if instead of externalizing, if I instead hyperanalyze the root cause of the emotion-why do I feel this way? where does it come from? am I justified in this? and most importantly, what part of this emotion do I own and what part am I accountable for? This process can take weeks depending upon the root cause under study-its like taking a scalpel to the problem-but the outcome is a very clear understanding of my emotional state, a shifting of my emotional state to be more appropriate and a sense of peace and relaxation-I simply know where I stand and the role of others becomes far less important as I know myself. Once understood, it becomes addicting to complete the above exercise-I love it actually

For an INFJ, does sort of pinning things down emotionally make one feel trapped or confined? or helpless? How does Ti help one sort through the emotion? I can sometimes tap into very infantile Ni and Fe like states, so I do fully expect that INFJs would sometimes experience Ne and Fi like states...

From the iNFJ perspective, why

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Fi assumes the position of the id function in an INFJ. The id function represents a process that is strong but regressive in nature. INFJs are very strong in Fi but it threatens to pull them back into a state of infancy.

hahaha this explains everything.

For INFJ, all the negative emotional experience that they have collected over the years will begin to be resolved the moment they attempt to express them in some medium (instead of trying to figure them out, ponder the significance of them or talk themselves into why they must be such bad people because they have all this emotional negativity). Fe is an opportunity for the INFJ to express the depth of their feelings similar to how a spout provides an outlet for a container to pour out its contents. If they don’t open the spout, the feelings build up, ferment and become poisonous. INFJs are primed to be collectors or containers of negative emotional experience. They often attract them unconsciously to themselves by acting as people’s confessors. These feelings quietly fill them up until they become more and more weighed down with all the vagaries of existence. With just a little conscious will, they could just as easily begin to drain themselves via Fe, which in contradistinction to their experience of Fi, is a complete joy to them.

Do INFJ have this habit of repressing negative emotions and thoughts, due to Fe which is likely to consider interpersonal harmony and the tendency to avoid conflicts?

Will be patiently waiting for replies and prospective discussions on this topic

Yes, this is absolutely true for me. It is exactly why I have to spend a lot of time alone to get rid of the inner emotional toxins. It is also why I become physically sick in dysfunctional environments. It helps to spend a lot of time internalizing trees. They are super mellow, peaceful, and patient. I also become that subconsciously when exposed to that environment.

I do feel like my Achilles Heel is that I so intensely internalize the concrete world around me without being able to process it first. I get overwhelmed by too much sensory or social data.

 

[pmj85]

There were parts of your post that strike me as being similar to an enfp-perhaps due to both being dominant perceivers.

hmm, for myself, in a similar fashion to your above statement-it can take days, weeks etc to identify why I feel the way I do (Ne keeps scurrying around trying to pin down Fi). It is much simpler to just go, "Nope" lets go NeTe some stuff in the real world-thats easy.

Interesting. I would have assumed that auxiliary Fi would allow a user to pinpoint how they are feeling with a good degree of accuracy.

And, like you, when emotionally extreme, it can be overwhelming, resulting in inappropriate externalization of emotion (the curse of extroversion,)

A curse of Fe, I'd say

But if instead of externalizing, if I instead hyperanalyze the root cause of the emotion-why do I feel this way? where does it come from? am I justified in this? and most importantly, what part of this emotion do I own and what part am I accountable for? This process can take weeks depending upon the root cause under study-its like taking a scalpel to the problem-but the outcome is a very clear understanding of my emotional state, a shifting of my emotional state to be more appropriate and a sense of peace and relaxation-I simply know where I stand and the role of others becomes far less important as I know myself. Once understood, it becomes addicting to complete the above exercise-I love it actually

This sounds rather Ti, which leads me to:

How does Ti help one sort through the emotion?

A process not dissimilar to the one you mention above.

If you're convinced of extraversion, how sure are you that you're an ENFP, not an ExFJ? Obviously, I cannot (and would not) attempt to tell you what your type is. I am merely offering my insight, and my insight tells me that the processes you describe sound like Fe and Ti to me! Worth noting, perhaps

 

[velveteen]

I can't relate.


A typical INFJ is likely to be unaware of their inner-emotional states, and I have discussed this at reasonable length quite a few times; I may yet write an article, or something.


It can take me hours, days or sometimes even a week or more to really understand why I feel the way I do. My inner world is tended to by Ti. I'm far more prone to analyse rather than 'feel', although extreme emotions can overwhelm me. For example, if something awful happens and I am made to feel sad, there won't be any... uh... (see? I have no frame of reference here) 'flavour' (?!) to the emotion. It will simply be a heaviness deep within, robbing me of energy and shaping my perceptions, painting reality in a duller light than normal.


Ach. See? It's hard. Fi isn't something I do, or get... and to be perfectly honest, the thought of truly understanding and being at one with my emotions scares the shit out of me.

This.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I love the topic idea and would love to be audience to an INFJ-dominated conversation to follow. I am interested to learn more about your inner workings.

But with all due respect to INFJs having an INFJ conversation about INFJness, I do not think the article author engages Fi as well as he thinks he does, because it just does not make sense in Fi-land to claim good usage of someone else's primary function and subsequently insult their primary usage of it. So, as the author does not appear to really understand Fi, I am not really sure that the article itself contains good examples of INFJs using Fi. Though I do believe you guys can engage it and am curious to hear how it works for you.

IT doesn't make sense in Fe-land either!


I dunno. I am at my best either drawing someone else out, or delving into some esoteric concept to discover its complete essence and truth. I know that sounds hokey, but it's true. Perhaps this is Fe and Ti, respectively.

I do not understand myself at all, and consequently would be shocked to find someone else could. So, just as I never expect anyone to remember my name, I do not expect anyone to get me. Emotions can overwhelm me, both positive and negative. Positive: I go off into this dreamy white zone halfway between sleep and love land, for hours and sometimes, days. Negative: I fetal up and my world crashes around me. Thankfully, this has gone from lasting for hours, to lasting only minutes. I attribute that to God's healing influence in my psyche.

Yeah, I don't know if I Fi or not. I reckon I do because I'm older and F has been with me so long, but there is no comparison between the outflow and inflow of F for me. I'm much more at home with feeling going out than coming, or turned, in.

 

[sculpting]

I do not understand myself at all, and consequently would be shocked to find someone else could. So, just as I never expect anyone to remember my name, I do not expect anyone to get me.

Another ENFP vs INFJ difference-Interestingly-I feel like I know myself perfectly well-I suspect FiSi feels like a static thing and gives one this illusion. Like all the parts and pieces are just sitting there waiting to be looked at-I just havent had the time to do so just yet. Now when I do look-that is when the scalpel comes out as they are not quite what I thought they were. Lol, so I think I know myself perfectly well, till I stop and really look. Ni, though, I think that is part of what gives INFJs their magic-it is so dynamic and evolving.....would you say you know your "process", your behavioral model, even if you dont know yourself?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Another ENFP vs INFJ difference-Interestingly-I feel like I know myself perfectly well-I suspect FiSi feels like a static thing and gives one this illusion. Like all the parts and pieces are just sitting there waiting to be looked at-I just havent had the time to do so just yet. Now when I do look-that is when the scalpel comes out as they are not quite what I thought they were. Lol, so I think I know myself perfectly well, till I stop and really look. Ni, though, I think that is part of what gives INFJs their magic-it is so dynamic and evolving.....would you say you know your "process", your behavioral model, even if you dont know yourself?

Hmm. Perhaps if I think about it. I haven't thought about it. I don't really like thinking about myself in that way I guess. Seems like more important/better things to think about. Though I'd like someone else to know for me. Basically, I want my partner to know all that stuff that I don't know, or don't care to know. Does that make sense?

 

[skippythecat]

Do INFJ have this habit of repressing negative emotions and thoughts, due to Fe which is likely to consider interpersonal harmony and the tendency to avoid conflicts?

Yes and no. The closer I am to you the more direct and opinionated I can be about my emotions and thoughts if it serves a purpose, but generally I have a more laid back attitude. There are a few people that will make my Fe work harder, but my emotions do get in the way to make a judgment on something or someone and I end up with clouded judgment. Clouded judgment makes me look judgmental. Great.

I've been wondering about my Fi function and how it is expressed (mind you I'm still learning) compare to INFPs. I am constantly analyzing myself, so I have no idea if it's Fi or something else that is at work here. I know Fi is expressed differently for both types, but it seems easier to identify Fi in INFPs (is it because it's their dominant function?) than INFJs. Is it possible for Fi in INFPs and ENFPs to look relatively "similar" in how they are expressed?

 

[BlackDog]

I've heard that ESTP and ENTP are the two types with the lowest Fi because they not only don't have it, they look like they could care less.

INFJ and ISFJ are, I imagine, like the mirror of this. They don't have Fi, but they look like they do.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I've heard that ESTP and ENTP are the two types with the lowest Fi because they not only don't have it, they look like they could care less.

INFJ and ISFJ are, I imagine, like the mirror of this. They don't have Fi, but they look like they do.

Every type has every function

 

[BlackDog]

Every type has every function

True, but some have much lower than others. That's what I meant.

For example, INTPs have lower Fi than INFPs.