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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well Stoicism is about being indifferent towards pain and the world. NFs are certainly not that way. That was my point.
    I don't recall using a big S when I said stoicism. I was using it colloquially.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I'm politically liberal but socially conservative. I'm not super in love with the extreme traditional gender roll stuff like opening car doors and pulling out chairs, though.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    hmmm...I wonder which type is the absolute least likely to be socially conservative?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #14
    Senior Member helen's Avatar
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    Hello, I am another socially and politically and economically conservative NF. Woohoo!

    Seriously, my political and economic convictions are rather loosely held and not terribly well thought out as yet.

    I have stronger convictions about socially conservative/moral behavior, but for me it is more about showing courtesy, kindness, and respect (like Captain Chick was saying) than upholding tradition for the sake of tradition.
    "There ain't no doubt in no one's mind that love's the finest thing around. Whisper something soft and kind." --James Taylor

  5. #15
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helen View Post
    Hello, I am another socially and politically and economically conservative NF. Woohoo!

    Seriously, my political and economic convictions are rather loosely held and not terribly well thought out as yet.

    I have stronger convictions about socially conservative/moral behavior, but for me it is more about showing courtesy, kindness, and respect (like Captain Chick was saying) than upholding tradition for the sake of tradition.
    economically conservative? Go on...

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The ISFPs I've know tend to be more conservative than their INFP counterparts. I know some conservatively religious INFPs and ENFJs in their overall beliefs (i.e., they can attend evangelical churches), but they still stretch outside the conventional and make allowance for other views even if they usually want to avoid overt conflict with people.

    INFJs have also been pretty good too at seeing alternate views and acknowledging them, even if they are aware they hold a particular set of beliefs themselves.

    If I go back mentally over my list, in my personal experience, ENFPs overall have actually been the most unwilling to budge and/or see another viewpoint when they feel convicted over something. They just weren't that interested in exploring and acknowledging a POV that argued with their Fi premises and what they wanted to believe, and they got very aggressive in pushing their POV when it wasn't asked for.

    (obviously ymmv, since this is just my personal experience.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    Conservative is relative. Conserve what? What point in time? How far back? McCarthyist Fifties? Newt Gingrich Contract with America Nineties? Nancy Reagan Just Say No Eighties? Stone Age?

    A couple examples:

    Drugs: I think marijuana should be legalized, but I recognize the problem of addiction to hardcore substances such as cocaine. I think our society is out of balance wrt drugs. Other cultures such as tribal ones are able to integrate psychedelic use into their way of life without social problems. Ancient Greeks took psychedelics as part of the Eleusinian rites. Plato most likely took psychedelics and he obviously did not become an addict. Our society produces addicts of all kinds. I don't think marijuana is a gateway drug any more than beer is a gateway alcohol. So is this conservative? It is certainly tribal. Why are tribes not more conservative than American conservatives who try to turn back our society to undo the New Deal, since the tribes go farther back in history?

    Motherhood: I like the Continuum Concept version of mothering, in which the woman goes about her business, associating with other adults, while including the baby by wearing the baby everywhere. I wish that women could wear their babies to work, but this would only keep the babies happy if the women were in constant motion and gave the babies a change of scenery. Our modern offices are boring to a baby compared to a stone age village or tribe that is set in nature and full of the bustle of crafts and physical activities. So unfortunately women in our society do not have that option most of the time as a realistic possibility. Which is why women have the cruel work vs. motherhood conflict. It is not natural for a woman to center her whole day around taking care of babies and children. It also robs the babies and children of the opportunity to learn about life and imitate adults by watching the adults live their lives and having the opportunity to imitate them. Is this a conservative view or not?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelTao View Post
    Conservative is relative. Conserve what? What point in time? How far back? McCarthyist Fifties? Newt Gingrich Contract with America Nineties? Nancy Reagan Just Say No Eighties? Stone Age?

    A couple examples:

    Drugs: I think marijuana should be legalized, but I recognize the problem of addiction to hardcore substances such as cocaine. I think our society is out of balance wrt drugs. Other cultures such as tribal ones are able to integrate psychedelic use into their way of life without social problems. Ancient Greeks took psychedelics as part of the Eleusinian rites. Plato most likely took psychedelics and he obviously did not become an addict. Our society produces addicts of all kinds. I don't think marijuana is a gateway drug any more than beer is a gateway alcohol. So is this conservative? It is certainly tribal. Why are tribes not more conservative than American conservatives who try to turn back our society to undo the New Deal, since the tribes go farther back in history?

    Motherhood: I like the Continuum Concept version of mothering, in which the woman goes about her business, associating with other adults, while including the baby by wearing the baby everywhere. I wish that women could wear their babies to work, but this would only keep the babies happy if the women were in constant motion and gave the babies a change of scenery. Our modern offices are boring to a baby compared to a stone age village or tribe that is set in nature and full of the bustle of crafts and physical activities. So unfortunately women in our society do not have that option most of the time as a realistic possibility. Which is why women have the cruel work vs. motherhood conflict. It is not natural for a woman to center her whole day around taking care of babies and children. It also robs the babies and children of the opportunity to learn about life and imitate adults by watching the adults live their lives and having the opportunity to imitate them. Is this a conservative view or not?
    Hello little furry... . Personally I don't believe the idea of what is considered conservative socially and liberal socially is really that "amUous" (get it am-big u-ous, I thought it was cute) unless we wish to make it so.

    Personally if I had it my way, Alcohol and tobacco would be black market commodities just like all the other illegal substances right now. Now I know the war on drugs isn't worth a rats ass, and hurts more than it helps, but this can be fixed in so many ways (i.e. no prison sentances for small things and don't lie about what the substance does, people should know exactly what it does).

    Mothers are the corner stone of society and should be treated better than everyone else. Not kidding here, if moms are happy and well fed and educated, your society will be happy, well fed and educated. The neo-cons should not be pushing so hard to stop abortion, instead they should be pushing to make it so easy to have a baby without interupting a womans life so badly that woman would want to have the baby, instead of see it beeing seen as a burden (Incentives people).

    *********

    Here is a little wierd belief of mine, if you are caught red handed beyond the shred of a doubt in a sexual assault, i.e. a beaten the shit out of woman with your juices in her (confirmed), you should be taken out back and given the old yeller treatmant. Other things, where they maybe a shread of a doubt, you don't kill.

    I think I will start different little polls in the politics section for disscussion, like what do you think of the feds tryen to took all are guns away? aaaahhhh!

  9. #19
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't recall using a big S when I said stoicism. I was using it colloquially.
    Hence why I said I understood your basic point.

  10. #20
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I have more "liberal" beliefs in regards to things like gay marriage (or "civil unions" work too; I'm not picky) and such, but that's because I'm a gay man that thinks I should be able to have some kind of union. I think it is a sign of true commitment and love and is universal (not tied to a single religion).

    However, I do have a conservative demeanor. I think acting like a fool in public, talking on your phone during a movie, or making out with someone in the middle of a mall are all ridiculous. The list can go on... Last year I had some friends get onto one of the electric shopping carts in wal-mart and they were basically causing a seen. I called them immature and left.

    I am old fashioned when it comes to relationships too.

    I try not to judge people for their actions, but sometimes I can't help but think down on people who just don't seem to think. Like when someone who is sexually active finds out they are pregnant and looks surprised! That always bothers me. What did you think was going to happen?

    Edit: And yes. I fully agree with JP II and Benedict XVI's writings on tradition. Very interesting to read, considering the Catholic church is built and maintained on tradition and their writings weren't totally in favor of tradition.
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