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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopelandic View Post
    I don't idealise them like a lot of nf's tend to do.
    I don't idealize them. I find myself unfortunately attracted to them, and like the idea of them getting things done and cutting their hair (as opposed to INTPs).

    In truth they can be quite smug and distant and hard to know. With some of them they act like they're doing you a favor by giving you their attention. Depends on the INTJ and how mature they are.

    A mature INTJ is warm and wonderful inside, and just measures the world at a distance with calculated logic. A less mature INTJ is kind of judgemental, cold-hearted prick.

    There's a problem that occurs regarding the filtering of information. Intjs' aren't intuitive feelers, their feeling is informed by Se. This encourages them sometimes to dismiss feeling fed by intuition (nf). Just like nf's thinking is fed by sensing and can come at a head with intj thinking fed by intuition.

    There's great advantages to this if you can work together as a team. But if you aren't aware of the dynamic described above, you can come to a point of contention. I've seen intjs' describe feelings as black and white etc. You can see the fi+se, which leads to different information filtering from fi+ne for example. Nf scratches a whole other layer of reality, NT doesn't and NT scratches a whole layer of reality NF doesn't. As long as you can recognise the merit of both and among other things, I guess it can work. If you're not very well integrated and become aggravated, confused, bemused by the others' means of coming to conclusions, then it gets tricky.
    Hmmm I don't know if this has anything to do with sensing feelings and intuitive feelings, but rather than they give HEAVY HEAVY weight to logic and we give much more credit to nuance and feeling. INTJs can seem like the Thinkerty McThinkers of Thinkers in terms of being excessively logical. They're sometimes overly logical, and it's obviously to protect themselves.

    If we talk about it in terms of function theory, I see INTPs as being more "open" even with their inferior Fe, being realistically less sensitive, and INTJs as being more "closed" trying to protect their little Fi flame like "my precious my precious" with this hard outer shell covering up major Puss In Boots.

    I prefer entjs'. Simply because I seem to get on better with dominant judgers. I tend to prefer Te as someones dominant function rather than supporting one.

    I also prefer intps' above entjs'.
    Yeah, ENTJs are easier to get to know, or at least at a younger age. Extroverts are easier to crack like that.

  2. #142
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    They make me feel like this....






    'tis sad but true... Stoic, cold and logical on the outside, warm and wonderful on the in.

    Unfortunately, i can't help but like them... (INTx is my weakness)

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  3. #143
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    What do INFPs think of INTJs?

    I don't.

    If I like you, I like you. Type has nothing to do with it.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No offense, but I think the above is crap.

    I particularly disagree with the bolded, and I think it taints the rest of your analysis.
    My 2 main points were; intjs' fi is fed by se, and that nt's aren't nf's. What is the problem with these suggestions?

    So an intjs' Fi isn't fed by Se?
    You are an intuitive thinker first and foremost. If you were an nf, you'd be an nf.

    I will further articulate my reasoning;
    I have come across intjs' time and time again, referring to feeling as 'linear'. They refer to it as, "cause and effect", less about the reasoning process that feeling as a dominant or axillary can play the role of (as the heroic or supporting/nurturing position). Nf's can also have an 'st' like interpretation of nt reasoning. For example on forums, you will see intps' engaging with theory and not caring whether it can be applied (not just because of Ti, but the combination of Ti+intuition, whereas st's will be more likely to want harder evidence before making claims) whereas nf's (including infps') seem to make te judgments through sensing. "It's bs because there's no evidence".

    My comments were about the roles feeling and thinking play in the infps' and intj's psych. I'm not talking about function strengths or any of that bs, but their roles (beebe, lenore thomson). What is the issue with the suggestion that the combination of the roles and the way these types filter information, can promote problems?

    I see it all the time about intjs' commenting on infp threads on personality boards, "they're too emotional". To some infps' the discussions about situations goes beyond emotions. There is a lot to learn from these 'feeling' experiences, especially through the lens of Ne. Why? because of the roles of fi and ne and their positions in the hierarchy. It might not make sense or be valuable to other types, because of the fact they are other types, and they judge and perceive information in different ways because of the ways their functions are interacting because of their roles.

    Sometimes infps' like to 'sit in feelings', whereas that may utterly confuse the intj. On a forum i'm on, an intj quoted the other day, "i've learned to never trust advice about feelings from a feeler" when referring to nf's. Feeling is the intjs' third function, and they may view it and it may play a role in their decision making in these ways;

    • Vulnerable
    • Improvises
    • Playful
    • Irresponsible
    • Charming
    • Promising but ultimately unreliable
    • Seems amoral
    • Spoiled Prince/Princess

    compare that to an infp whose 'hero' is fi;

    • Prioritizes
    • Initiates
    • Charismatic
    • Trusted
    • Promotes ambitions & goals

    I mean, do you disagree that this (se) supports and supplies information to your fi?

    External information-gathering
    • External focus on concrete things
    • Time orientation: immediate present
    • Broad (inclusive); not deep
    • Finite scope
    • Visual emphasis (“Seeing is believing”)
    • The tangible current environment is reality
    • Intimately connected to environment
    • Energized by the sensory experience
    • Literal
    • Active, impulsive, proactive about experiencing
    the “Now”
    • Hands-on, practical, pragmatic

  5. #145
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    I'm not saying Se can't work in conjunction with Fi; I'm just saying that so can Ni.

    I've never once considered the notion that my Fi could only work in tandem with my Se.

    Perhaps the problem is that I am not realizing something, but, at the same time, perhaps you are overdoing something.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not saying Se can't work in conjunction with Fi; I'm just saying that so can Ni.

    I've never once considered the notion that my Fi could only work in tandem with my Se.

    Perhaps the problem is that I am not realizing something, but, at the same time, perhaps you are overdoing something.
    I'm not suggesting it only works with se, but that it's the main source of information feeding it. Perhaps the problem is that I see functions in terms of roles (albeit they are flexible akin to how Beebe and Lenore Thomson theorise about them) but also my judgments are being formed through experience.

    I'm not suggesting there will always be problems just because of these things; but that given we have the same ways of judging (though they play different roles) our different sources of information for these judgments can cause conflict, again compounded by the roles. That has been my experience.

  7. #147
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    eep double post.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopelandic View Post
    I'm not suggesting it only works with se, but that it's the main source of information feeding it. Perhaps the problem is that I see functions in terms of roles (albeit they are flexible akin to how Beebe and Lenore Thomson theorise about them) but also my judgments are being formed through experience.

    I'm not suggesting there will always be problems just because of these things; but that given we have the same ways of judging (though they play different roles) our different sources of information for these judgments can cause conflict. That has been my experience.
    The only issue I take with your argument is that if this were true it would mean NFs and NTs aren't compatible at all.

    Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The only issue I take with your argument is that if this were true it would mean NFs and NTs aren't compatible at all.

    Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with.
    Can you explain that based on my reasoning there would be no compatibility? I think compatibility theories are not very useful because there are too many factors to consider. I was only isolating ONE FACTOR and expounding on it; not providing a comprehensive theory. I would never argue anything regarding non compatibility.

    I don't see how the statements i've made suggest there is no possibility of compatibility. Compatibility was not my aim. I was targeting where specific -problems- may occur, not the be all and end all of whether intjs' and infps' could get along. Very specific focus.

    "Plus, I don't think INTJs think INFPs are "too emotional" because of feeding Fi with Se. If SFPs were less emotional, my mother would be a much easier person to deal with".

    I say -some- intjs' based on the -actual comments- I've seen from some. Not -all-.

    I also said se feeds their fi, but not that it is their only source.

    Please read this thread for more information about what i'm getting at.
    http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-tempe...-nfs-mean.html

  10. #150
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    Especially this post;
    Yea.... you know I hypothesize it might have to do with our functions ......because NF's logic are always backed up by an S function..... do you know what I mean?

    INFP= Fi Ne Si Te
    ENFP=Ne Fi Te Si
    ENFJ= Fe Ni Se Ti
    INFJ= Ni Fe Ti Se

    You never see Ti with Ne. You never see Te with Ni. Therefore as NF's I hypothesize that we may think of Ts as sensors because that is how we ourselves use logic.... we only have sensor based logic. This also works with NTs too in that they may think F is S like you said.

    But yes when my INFJ friend found typed her husband she kept calling him an S when he was clearly just using Ti. Her husband is an ENTP.

    Since intuition is so engulfed in our feelings then it's hard for us to separate the two I think, especially if we've never met an NT before in order to see how intuition could mix with T.

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