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  1. #1
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Default How should NFPs communicate with SFJs?

    This post will be mostly focused on ISFJs because I don't converse with ESFJs enough to get a solid grasp of them however the point is to discuss both.

    Does anyone else struggle communicating with SFJs? In the case of ISFJs, I feel that I have to speak their language (SiFe) to get points across which is fair to a certain extent however they won't try to understand intuitive conversation and have trouble comprehending abstract concepts yet they find relief in dominant introverted thinking. What gives? Don't they experience anima/animus?

    What is intuitive conversation, you ask? It's skipping details or discussing abstract concepts or at least trying to discuss abstract ideas - this frustrates an ISFJ more than the aforementioned. For an ISFJ, it's either that you have poor communication skills (which is reasonable but not always the case) OR it doesn't exist and you're acting pretentious.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here's an example (purple=me, green=ISFJ) :
    yeah, I think games are cheaper in the other store, I dunno
    ARGHHH
    what?!
    the things you say, people don't understand!
    what do you mean?!
    how do you know they're cheaper in the other store? Did you compare them?
    I don't remember but I'm sure I did!
    You can't compare San Andreas to GTA 4
    Three games for the price of one is still cheaper. Anyway, see? I'm comparing the same versions and it's still cheaper! Look at these other games - they're still cheaper in the other store!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm willing to concede that FiNe is really the issue not "pure" Ne conversation however I and other NFP friends do understand SFJs and their practical manner... yet they don't seem to master FiNe conversation. It builds up a lot of resentment on both sides. So, any ideas? What's going on here?
    Night is another candle

  2. #2
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    This SFJ sounds a bit like a d*ck to me. No offense. A bit rude there!

    A know a few xSxJ in my life and they don't really talk this way. But I notice the communication style that SJ prefer. They need you to be articulate, specific and as informative as possible. They need to understand why one reaches a certain conclusion. Not that they don't trust you, they just want to double check everything. It takes a lot before they can trust somebody's judgments or decisions that involves them especially. You just have to earn it over time with constant good judgment calls.

    Having said that, I am INFP, I enjoy and I do intuitive conversations; HOWEVER, when it comes to work, tasks, duties or planning, I am and I require others to be absolutely articulate, informative and decisive. It's a must. I get annoyed when people talk without facts and clear information in these situations. Very annoyed. I need to examine details of your data collecting, data analysing and decision making process.

    For harmony with your SJ or any other mature and professional minded pals, strictly apply either inductive or deductive approach - tell them your conclusion and explain specifically why, or give them facts and figures first then draw your conclusion.
    .
    | | | If it is god who makes man, this is the devil finishing touches | | |
    .

  3. #3
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    haha, yeah. i get this. SiJe seems to be sort of a lingua franca, and in some ways i get why. it's more reliable, more practical.

    when you said "i don't remember, but i'm sure i did" i laughed to myself. like, if i remember that games are cheaper at this place, i must have done some comparing before, but the only thing i deemed important enough to remember was the general conclusion that they were. i find i'm often dismissed because of this by SFJs. i can't prove it so they don't give it credibility. and in some ways, i don't blame them. they're probably better at recalling the ins and outs of where things are cheaper.

    Ne types are really good at adjusting. SFJs are less so. i find that i'm very often adjusting to the SFJs in my life, and that when i try to take things in my direction, it winds up entertaining to them at best or just plain confusing at worst. SiFe for real talk, and let your NeFi out to play or get all inspirational with them. that's how i find it most often goes down for me.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #4
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    The ISFJ is being a dick in this case, tell him/her that you were just giving advice and if he/she doesn´t want to take it, his/her loss.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #5
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    i get what you guys are saying about the SFJ being a dick. i guess the general tone (in a less direct manner) is what i relate to. the conversation in question seems like an extreme example of something i experience on a more subtle level.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  6. #6
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Personally, I´ve met some ISFJs that were literal like that, some others that could understand conversations where not everything is 100% spelled out (or that when they don´t, they ask politely to clarify). I just dropped the first type from my life and kept on having as friends / companions / etc. the second.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    This SFJ sounds a bit like a d*ck to me. No offense. A bit rude there!

    A know a few xSxJ in my life and they don't really talk this way. But I notice the communication style that SJ prefer. They need you to be articulate, specific and as informative as possible. They need to understand why one reaches a certain conclusion. Not that they don't trust you, they just want to double check everything. It takes a lot before they can trust somebody's judgments or decisions that involves them especially. You just have to earn it over time with constant good judgment calls.

    Having said that, I am INFP, I enjoy and I do intuitive conversations; HOWEVER, when it comes to work, tasks, duties or planning, I am and I require others to be absolutely articulate, informative and decisive. It's a must. I get annoyed when people talk without facts and clear information in these situations. Very annoyed. I need to examine details of your data collecting, data analysing and decision making process.

    For harmony with your SJ or any other mature and professional minded pals, strictly apply either inductive or deductive approach - tell them your conclusion and explain specifically why, or give them facts and figures first then draw your conclusion.
    Pretty much. I only know a few ISFJ but know many SJ people, and I don't beat around the bush for them. Get straight the point, explain my reasons for my conclusion usually settles it. If they disagree we'll go from there. NFs are a different story (in a good way of course).

  8. #8
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I find it easier when I know exactly what I'm saying (make a claim then support it with my 'evidence'). If I just go round and round in my thought process my ISFJ mom starts to get impatient. I think she identifies more if I can back it up with concrete experiences. For example, if I tell her what happened and how I felt about something, she can be very helpful in fleshing out the details and interpreting the situation from there.

    I've noticed that if I make an abstract claim without anything concrete to back it up, she is not very interested and tends to dismiss it. Or if it is controversial claim she gets rather uneasy. For example, if I say "Divorce (as a social phenomenon) liberates women!", she gets nervous. But if I start to talk about the experiences of people around us and point out how social stigma is forcing women to stay in bad marriages, we can have a really good discussion.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  9. #9
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Pretty much as you put it - you have to communicate on their terms, which is actually true with most people if you are an INFP.

    The exception here is is the SFJ in question has already deemed you valuable in their life & then they may bend a lot to accommodate you. My ISFJ mom works hard now to try & grasp me, but as a child I dealt with more misunderstanding, criticism & dismissiveness because my way of communication was strange to her. As an adult, she has to accommodate me a bit, because I tend to withdraw & disappear otherwise, and she wants to know what's going on with me.


    Two things which help:
    - Leaving less a mystery. SFJs tend to be nervous people who like to know where they stand with others, & they will project heaps of negative BS onto someone reserved because they are uncomfortable with the unknown. Inform them of who you are & how you feel (not necessarily the deeper stuff, which few will have patience for), or else they'll fill it in with negative conjecture. Poor Ne works that way - filling in blanks with negatives, whereas differentiated N forms abstract connections & relationships to fill in blanks (not necessarily good or bad).

    - Adding more inflection, facial expression & general warmth into your speech & mannerisms or else they don't take what you say to have weight. They use emotion to communicate value they want to influence others with, so they won't feel a need to respect your feelings unless you add weight to them with emotion. This is at odds with being an INFP, where you express feelings that you want others to respect as rationally as you can, thinking that mixing in emotional expression will make them less valid & not wanting to be emotionally vulnerable. However, this makes you look cold & unfeeling to SFJs, who will then dismiss your feelings. SFJs demand a vulnerability because it's not risky for them. Feelings are not "identity", just a currency they use to communicate.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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